Interesting Article.. in my "opinion" the reason as to why m and e commerce in Kenya is closing shop is that it has not evolved. instead we all jump to online businesses without solid brick and mortar businesses. IMHO kalahari should have been started by the likes of Nakumatt. They can give great discount and know the market well, heck… they even know their customer habits from the smart card. surly the can offer me a product they know i always buy at great discount. I blame the OverHYPE of Online and Mobile Business. Just because we are techies doesn't mean everyone is a techie. My theory on how to be successful online in Kenya. First build a "factory" (business that generates cash) understand it then move processes to an online business.. slowly pushing your customers to online. It may take a while before you move from brick and mortar -to- hybrid -to- online thats why you will always need the factory to be running. question for online classifieds ads:- a) do we actually do Market Research to see if they work. What do people want. b) How much is the return on investment. i.e. How long shall you keep running before you get tired of taking photos of cars? c) Yes you have simplified the process but have lessened the the shopping experience. (Smell, Taste, Feel) MK On Thursday, November 24, 2011, aki wrote:

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Mbugua Njihia <mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke');>

...

wrote:

...

The recent closure of Kalahari locally and in other African markets put into sharp focus the current state of m and e commerce in Kenya. A number of conversations I had in the past week pointed to the need for a service that “breaks the ice” for consumers to appreciate buying and selling of goods online and on mobile. The service of choice was seen as classifieds. ****

A simple search for classifieds online will bring a whole list of providers, with all, more often than not calling themselves the number one destination. Cutting to the chase, let us look at those I consider major players and what they may or may not be doing right. - bit.ly/u4aeBk****

@Njihia. A very nice and balanced article :-) I like the use of words "scraping", this is a real problem I faced early on, on the site I ocassionaly maintain. I had to block static ip addresses just to get around such content use abuses. For those who want to know the reality of online business, it requires a 100% commitment to such a project but financially the returns in our market are not worth the turnovers unless you are ready to put in a 3-5 year plan. How DealFish is going to pull through such remains to be seen, I'd still ask computer programmers to ensure that Nation and Standard media have the latest technology methods available to them to be effectively competitive.

Enjoyed reading your article.

--

**--If I ever wrote code on a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with people who share the same views than give out a single line of code to code thieves who will use it to defeat the principles of freedom and choices---2011--Me--**

well said @mugambi On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

Onto other news, Dealfish is reportedly closing down all other operations other than Kenya and Nigeria....

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

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-- Regards, Mutua Nicholas *He owns, I manage.*

Where would you categorize www.mzoori.com On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Maux <mauxdatabase@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Skunks,

Having attempted to play in this space a number of times, I am slowly coming to the conclusion that successful classified applications in Africa will share two fundamental characteristics.

1. They will be essentially a mobile app or service. 2. They will address niche markets/products/categories.

There are a number of upcoming apps that share these characteristics that are beginning to emerge.

Cheki.co.ke Classifieds for Cars MedAfrica.org Classifieds for Health MFarm.co.ke Classifieds for Commodity Prices CrowdPesa.com Classifieds for Financial Services

I am not sure *web platforms* like DealFish will remain viable when they stop being free as people will only pay for accessibility and accessibility in Africa is on Mobile phones.

What do you think?

John Founder and C.E.O Whive.com

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Nicholas Mutinda <mutindah@gmail.com>wrote:

...

well said @mugambi

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Onto other news, Dealfish is reportedly closing down all other operations other than Kenya and Nigeria....

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- Regards,

Mutua Nicholas *He owns, I manage.*

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

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@Brian, thanks.........also I really hope it will cater for mobile On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Brian Rioba <rriobs@gmail.com> wrote:

@ Paul Kevin, We are currently redeveloping mzoori.com to fit into a classified application. We should have be launching beginning of january...will keep you posted.

Brian Ombati, Lead developer, Mzoori Limited.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Paul Kevin <paultitude@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Where would you categorize www.mzoori.com

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Maux <mauxdatabase@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi Skunks,

Having attempted to play in this space a number of times, I am slowly coming to the conclusion that successful classified applications in Africa will share two fundamental characteristics.

1. They will be essentially a mobile app or service. 2. They will address niche markets/products/categories.

There are a number of upcoming apps that share these characteristics that are beginning to emerge.

Cheki.co.ke Classifieds for Cars MedAfrica.org Classifieds for Health MFarm.co.ke Classifieds for Commodity Prices CrowdPesa.com Classifieds for Financial Services

I am not sure *web platforms* like DealFish will remain viable when they stop being free as people will only pay for accessibility and accessibility in Africa is on Mobile phones.

What do you think?

John Founder and C.E.O Whive.com

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Nicholas Mutinda <mutindah@gmail.com>wrote:

...

well said @mugambi

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Onto other news, Dealfish is reportedly closing down all other operations other than Kenya and Nigeria....

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- Regards,

Mutua Nicholas *He owns, I manage.*

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

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Supermarkets though are not as interested as you guys in online presence. The argument, you go online to buy certain stuff and buy that stuff. You go to the Supermarket to buy shoepolish, and leave with a Sandwich, coke, Candy and shoepolish

Absolutely true, there is a very big social aspect to shopping that has been around for many decades. Most families, kids etc. In shopping malls, they even have food courts to cater for the social shopping liftestyle. On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Paul Kevin <paultitude@gmail.com> wrote:

Supermarkets know that at the moment, most people want to go out and buy stuff more than they want to sit on a desktop and click-away

@Njihia That's a very good article. Please also take into consideration that dealfish, pigiame, etc. are also in competition with the "Bricks" solutions e.g. The Adpost bulletin board at Odeon cinema or the bulletin board at Sarit Centre... On 11/24/11, Mugambi Kimathi <skunkworksjahazi@gmail.com> wrote:

Interesting Article..

in my "opinion" the reason as to why m and e commerce in Kenya is closing shop is that it has not evolved. instead we all jump to online businesses without solid brick and mortar businesses. IMHO kalahari should have been started by the likes of Nakumatt. They can give great discount and know the market well, heck… they even know their customer habits from the smart card. surly the can offer me a product they know i always buy at great discount.

I blame the OverHYPE of Online and Mobile Business. Just because we are techies doesn't mean everyone is a techie.

My theory on how to be successful online in Kenya.

First build a "factory" (business that generates cash) understand it then move processes to an online business.. slowly pushing your customers to online.

It may take a while before you move from brick and mortar -to- hybrid -to- online thats why you will always need the factory to be running.

question for online classifieds ads:-

a) do we actually do Market Research to see if they work. What do people want.

b) How much is the return on investment. i.e. How long shall you keep running before you get tired of taking photos of cars?

c) Yes you have simplified the process but have lessened the the shopping experience. (Smell, Taste, Feel)

MK

On Thursday, November 24, 2011, aki wrote:

...

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Mbugua Njihia <mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke');>

...

wrote:

...

The recent closure of Kalahari locally and in other African markets put into sharp focus the current state of m and e commerce in Kenya. A number of conversations I had in the past week pointed to the need for a service that “breaks the ice” for consumers to appreciate buying and selling of goods online and on mobile. The service of choice was seen as classifieds. ****

A simple search for classifieds online will bring a whole list of providers, with all, more often than not calling themselves the number one destination. Cutting to the chase, let us look at those I consider major players and what they may or may not be doing right. - bit.ly/u4aeBk****

@Njihia. A very nice and balanced article :-) I like the use of words "scraping", this is a real problem I faced early on, on the site I ocassionaly maintain. I had to block static ip addresses just to get around such content use abuses. For those who want to know the reality of online business, it requires a 100% commitment to such a project but financially the returns in our market are not worth the turnovers unless you are ready to put in a 3-5 year plan. How DealFish is going to pull through such remains to be seen, I'd still ask computer programmers to ensure that Nation and Standard media have the latest technology methods available to them to be effectively competitive.

Enjoyed reading your article.

--

**--If I ever wrote code on a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with people who share the same views than give out a single line of code to code thieves who will use it to defeat the principles of freedom and choices---2011--Me--**

The most followed traditional classifieds are digger classifieds and nation classifieds. That means that they should be the leaders in taking the trade digital. How does n-soko rank in comparison to the likes of dealfish, and pigiame? On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Paul Kevin <paultitude@gmail.com> wrote:

Im waiting to see when classifieds get of the web and into peoples handheld devices

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com>wrote:

...

@Njihia

That's a very good article.

Please also take into consideration that dealfish, pigiame, etc. are also in competition with the "Bricks" solutions e.g. The Adpost bulletin board at Odeon cinema or the bulletin board at Sarit Centre...

On 11/24/11, Mugambi Kimathi <skunkworksjahazi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Interesting Article..

in my "opinion" the reason as to why m and e commerce in Kenya is closing shop is that it has not evolved. instead we all jump to online businesses without solid brick and mortar businesses. IMHO kalahari should have been started by the likes of Nakumatt. They can give great discount and know the market well, heck… they even know their customer habits from the smart card. surly the can offer me a product they know i always buy at great discount.

I blame the OverHYPE of Online and Mobile Business. Just because we are techies doesn't mean everyone is a techie.

My theory on how to be successful online in Kenya.

First build a "factory" (business that generates cash) understand it then move processes to an online business.. slowly pushing your customers to online.

It may take a while before you move from brick and mortar -to- hybrid -to- online thats why you will always need the factory to be running.

question for online classifieds ads:-

a) do we actually do Market Research to see if they work. What do people want.

b) How much is the return on investment. i.e. How long shall you keep running before you get tired of taking photos of cars?

c) Yes you have simplified the process but have lessened the the shopping experience. (Smell, Taste, Feel)

MK

On Thursday, November 24, 2011, aki wrote:

...

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Mbugua Njihia <mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke');>

...

wrote:

...

The recent closure of Kalahari locally and in other African markets

put

...

...

into sharp focus the current state of m and e commerce in Kenya. A number of conversations I had in the past week pointed to the need for a service that “breaks the ice” for consumers to appreciate buying and selling of goods online and on mobile. The service of choice was seen as classifieds. ****

A simple search for classifieds online will bring a whole list of providers, with all, more often than not calling themselves the number one destination. Cutting to the chase, let us look at those I consider major players and what they may or may not be doing right. - bit.ly/u4aeBk****

@Njihia. A very nice and balanced article :-) I like the use of words "scraping", this is a real problem I faced early on, on the site I ocassionaly maintain. I had to block static ip addresses just to get around such content use abuses. For those who want to know the reality of online business, it requires a 100% commitment to such a project but financially the returns in our market are not worth the turnovers unless you are ready to put in a 3-5 year plan. How DealFish is going to pull through such remains to be seen, I'd still ask computer programmers to ensure that Nation and Standard media have the latest technology methods available to them to be effectively competitive.

Enjoyed reading your article.

--

**--If I ever wrote code on a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with people who share the same views than give out a single line of code to code thieves who will use it to defeat the principles of freedom and choices---2011--Me--**

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- Regards, Mutua Nicholas *He owns, I manage.*

Me too! I often visit Sarit just to check out their noticeboard. With all their revenue, I wonder why Nakumatt is yet to do anything substantial online. Even their website is ish ish. My reasoning is that the management there sees an online store as a cost center, and not a profit center. On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:

I have always wondered to myself why Nakumatt (or Uchumi or Tuskys etc) do not have an online store.. or why YaYa/Sarit Centre don't cross list their physical classifieds (I think they used to once albeit haphazardly) from their noticeboards.

-- Josiah Mugambi

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Nicholas Mutinda <mutindah@gmail.com>wrote:

...

The most followed traditional classifieds are digger classifieds and nation classifieds. That means that they should be the leaders in taking the trade digital. How does n-soko rank in comparison to the likes of dealfish, and pigiame?

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Paul Kevin <paultitude@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Im waiting to see when classifieds get of the web and into peoples handheld devices

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com

...

wrote:

...

@Njihia

That's a very good article.

Please also take into consideration that dealfish, pigiame, etc. are also in competition with the "Bricks" solutions e.g. The Adpost bulletin board at Odeon cinema or the bulletin board at Sarit Centre...

On 11/24/11, Mugambi Kimathi <skunkworksjahazi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Interesting Article..

in my "opinion" the reason as to why m and e commerce in Kenya is closing shop is that it has not evolved. instead we all jump to online businesses without solid brick and mortar businesses. IMHO kalahari should have been started by the likes of Nakumatt. They can give great discount and know the market well, heck… they even know their customer habits from the smart card. surly the can offer me a product they know i always buy at great discount.

I blame the OverHYPE of Online and Mobile Business. Just because we are techies doesn't mean everyone is a techie.

My theory on how to be successful online in Kenya.

First build a "factory" (business that generates cash) understand it then move processes to an online business.. slowly pushing your customers to online.

It may take a while before you move from brick and mortar -to- hybrid -to- online thats why you will always need the factory to be running.

question for online classifieds ads:-

a) do we actually do Market Research to see if they work. What do people want.

b) How much is the return on investment. i.e. How long shall you keep running before you get tired of taking photos of cars?

c) Yes you have simplified the process but have lessened the the shopping experience. (Smell, Taste, Feel)

MK

On Thursday, November 24, 2011, aki wrote:

...

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Mbugua Njihia <mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke');> > wrote:

> The recent closure of Kalahari locally and in other African markets

put

...

> into sharp focus the current state of m and e commerce in Kenya. A number > of conversations I had in the past week pointed to the need for a > service > that “breaks the ice” for consumers to appreciate buying and selling of > goods online and on mobile. The service of choice was seen as > classifieds. > **** > > A simple search for classifieds online will bring a whole list of > providers, with all, more often than not calling themselves the number > one > destination. Cutting to the chase, let us look at those I consider major > players and what they may or may not be doing right. - bit.ly/u4aeBk**** >

@Njihia. A very nice and balanced article :-) I like the use of words "scraping", this is a real problem I faced early on, on the site I ocassionaly maintain. I had to block static ip addresses just to get around such content use abuses. For those who want to know the reality of online business, it requires a 100% commitment to such a project but financially the returns in our market are not worth the turnovers unless you are ready to put in a 3-5 year plan. How DealFish is going to pull through such remains to be seen, I'd still ask computer programmers to ensure that Nation and Standard media have the latest technology methods available to them to be effectively competitive.

Enjoyed reading your article.

--

**--If I ever wrote code on a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with people who share the same views than give out a single line of code to code thieves who will use it to defeat the principles of freedom and choices---2011--Me--**

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

-- Regards,

Mutua Nicholas *He owns, I manage.*

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

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You mean something like what PaperG does? Check this sample for Orlando Sentinel Newspaper Ads http://www.paperg.com/flyerboard/orlando-sentinel/4072/0.html ----- "gisho" <gichuhie@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe its time someone came up with a 'digital noticeboard' of some kind

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Peter Karunyu < pkarunyu@gmail.com > wrote:

Me too! I often visit Sarit just to check out their noticeboard.

With all their revenue, I wonder why Nakumatt is yet to do anything substantial online. Even their website is ish ish. My reasoning is that the management there sees an online store as a cost center, and not a profit center.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi < jmugambi@gmail.com > wrote:

I have always wondered to myself why Nakumatt (or Uchumi or Tuskys etc) do not have an online store.. or why YaYa/Sarit Centre don't cross list their physical classifieds (I think they used to once albeit haphazardly) from their noticeboards.

-- Josiah Mugambi

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Nicholas Mutinda < mutindah@gmail.com > wrote:

The most followed traditional classifieds are digger classifieds and nation classifieds. That means that they should be the leaders in taking the trade digital. How does n-soko rank in comparison to the likes of dealfish, and pigiame?

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Paul Kevin < paultitude@gmail.com > wrote:

Im waiting to see when classifieds get of the web and into peoples handheld devices

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Timothy Mutugi < timothymutugi@gmail.com > wrote:

@Njihia

That's a very good article.

Please also take into consideration that dealfish, pigiame, etc. are also in competition with the "Bricks" solutions e.g. The Adpost bulletin board at Odeon cinema or the bulletin board at Sarit Centre...

On 11/24/11, Mugambi Kimathi < skunkworksjahazi@gmail.com > wrote:

...

Interesting Article..

in my "opinion" the reason as to why m and e commerce in Kenya is closing shop is that it has not evolved. instead we all jump to online businesses without solid brick and mortar businesses. IMHO kalahari should have been started by the likes of Nakumatt. They can give great discount and know the market well, heck… they even know their customer habits from the smart card. surly the can offer me a product they know i always buy at great discount.

I blame the OverHYPE of Online and Mobile Business. Just because we are techies doesn't mean everyone is a techie.

My theory on how to be successful online in Kenya.

First build a "factory" (business that generates cash) understand it then move processes to an online business.. slowly pushing your customers to online.

It may take a while before you move from brick and mortar -to- hybrid -to- online thats why you will always need the factory to be running.

question for online classifieds ads:-

a) do we actually do Market Research to see if they work. What do people want.

b) How much is the return on investment. i.e. How long shall you keep running before you get tired of taking photos of cars?

c) Yes you have simplified the process but have lessened the the shopping experience. (Smell, Taste, Feel)

MK

On Thursday, November 24, 2011, aki wrote:

...

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Mbugua Njihia < mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', ' mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke ');>

...

wrote:

...

The recent closure of Kalahari locally and in other African markets put into sharp focus the current state of m and e commerce in Kenya. A number of conversations I had in the past week pointed to the need for a service that “breaks the ice” for consumers to appreciate buying and selling of goods online and on mobile. The service of choice was seen as classifieds. ****

A simple search for classifieds online will bring a whole list of providers, with all, more often than not calling themselves the number one destination. Cutting to the chase, let us look at those I consider major players and what they may or may not be doing right. - bit.ly/u4aeBk****

@Njihia. A very nice and balanced article :-) I like the use of words "scraping", this is a real problem I faced early on, on the site I ocassionaly maintain. I had to block static ip addresses just to get around such content use abuses. For those who want to know the reality of online business, it requires a 100% commitment to such a project but financially the returns in our market are not worth the turnovers unless you are ready to put in a 3-5 year plan. How DealFish is going to pull through such remains to be seen, I'd still ask computer programmers to ensure that Nation and Standard media have the latest technology methods available to them to be effectively competitive.

Enjoyed reading your article.

--

**--If I ever wrote code on a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with people who share the same views than give out a single line of code to code thieves who will use it to defeat the principles of freedom and choices---2011--Me--**

...

...

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke

--

Regards,

Mutua Nicholas He owns, I manage.

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke

_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co..ke

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I know nakumatt has been going online for a while now, there were even several proposals on the workflow. But so far this is what I've seen www.nakumatt.co.ke On 11/24/11, mulutu jackson <mulutujackson@gmail.com> wrote:

Has anyone on this list ever approached Nakumatt/Tuskys/Sarit/Yaya/Uchumi with such a proposal? and what was their response? They may not have a clear understanding of the potential that this channel of business holds.

Mulutu

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Me too! I often visit Sarit just to check out their noticeboard.

With all their revenue, I wonder why Nakumatt is yet to do anything substantial online. Even their website is ish ish. My reasoning is that the management there sees an online store as a cost center, and not a profit center.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com>wrote:

...

I have always wondered to myself why Nakumatt (or Uchumi or Tuskys etc) do not have an online store.. or why YaYa/Sarit Centre don't cross list their physical classifieds (I think they used to once albeit haphazardly) from their noticeboards.

-- Josiah Mugambi

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Nicholas Mutinda <mutindah@gmail.com>wrote:

...

The most followed traditional classifieds are digger classifieds and nation classifieds. That means that they should be the leaders in taking the trade digital. How does n-soko rank in comparison to the likes of dealfish, and pigiame?

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Paul Kevin <paultitude@gmail.com>wrote:

...

Im waiting to see when classifieds get of the web and into peoples handheld devices

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Timothy Mutugi < timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

@Njihia

That's a very good article.

Please also take into consideration that dealfish, pigiame, etc. are also in competition with the "Bricks" solutions e.g. The Adpost bulletin board at Odeon cinema or the bulletin board at Sarit Centre...

On 11/24/11, Mugambi Kimathi <skunkworksjahazi@gmail.com> wrote: > Interesting Article.. > > in my "opinion" the reason as to why m and e commerce in Kenya is closing > shop is that it has not evolved. instead we all jump to online businesses > without solid brick and mortar businesses. IMHO kalahari should have been > started by the likes of Nakumatt. They can give great discount and know the > market well, heck… they even know their customer habits from the smart > card. surly the can offer me a product they know i always buy at great > discount. > > > I blame the OverHYPE of Online and Mobile Business. Just because we are > techies doesn't mean everyone is a techie. > > My theory on how to be successful online in Kenya. > > First build a "factory" (business that generates cash) understand it then > move processes to an online business.. slowly pushing your customers to > online. > > It may take a while before you move from brick and mortar -to- hybrid -to- > online thats why you will always need the factory to be running. > > > question for online classifieds ads:- > > a) do we actually do Market Research to see if they work. What do people > want. > > b) How much is the return on investment. i.e. How long shall you keep > running before you get tired of taking photos of cars? > > c) Yes you have simplified the process but have lessened the the shopping > experience. (Smell, Taste, Feel) > > > MK > > > On Thursday, November 24, 2011, aki wrote: > >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Mbugua Njihia >> <mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', >> 'mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke');> >> > wrote: >> >>> The recent closure of Kalahari locally and in other African markets put >>> into sharp focus the current state of m and e commerce in Kenya. A number >>> of conversations I had in the past week pointed to the need for a >>> service >>> that “breaks the ice” for consumers to appreciate buying and selling of >>> goods online and on mobile. The service of choice was seen as >>> classifieds. >>> **** >>> >>> A simple search for classifieds online will bring a whole list of >>> providers, with all, more often than not calling themselves the number >>> one >>> destination. Cutting to the chase, let us look at those I consider major >>> players and what they may or may not be doing right. - bit.ly/u4aeBk**** >>> >> >> >> @Njihia. A very nice and balanced article :-) I like the use of words >> "scraping", this is a real problem I faced early on, on the site I >> ocassionaly maintain. I had to block static ip addresses just to >> get >> around >> such content use abuses. For those who want to know the reality of online >> business, it requires a 100% commitment to such a project but financially >> the returns in our market are not worth the turnovers unless you are ready >> to put in a 3-5 year plan. How DealFish is going to pull through such >> remains to be seen, I'd still ask computer programmers to ensure that >> Nation and Standard media have the latest technology methods available to >> them to be effectively competitive. >> >> Enjoyed reading your article. >> >> >> -- >> >> **--If I ever wrote code on a system for the better of consumer freedoms >> or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with people who share the >> same views than give out a single line of code to code thieves who will >> use >> it to defeat the principles of freedom and choices---2011--Me--** >> >> > _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

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A approach to take will be like these guys http://www.beiyangu.co.ke/ , list major supermarket products and soon they will be drawn onto your platform On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Ali Nasser <yebne1@gmail.com> wrote:

I know nakumatt has been going online for a while now, there were even several proposals on the workflow. But so far this is what I've seen www.nakumatt.co.ke

On 11/24/11, mulutu jackson <mulutujackson@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Has anyone on this list ever approached Nakumatt/Tuskys/Sarit/Yaya/Uchumi with such a proposal? and what was their response? They may not have a clear understanding of the potential that this channel of business holds.

Mulutu

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:33 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Me too! I often visit Sarit just to check out their noticeboard.

With all their revenue, I wonder why Nakumatt is yet to do anything substantial online. Even their website is ish ish. My reasoning is that the management there sees an online store as a cost center, and not a profit center.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi@gmail.com wrote:

...

I have always wondered to myself why Nakumatt (or Uchumi or Tuskys etc) do not have an online store.. or why YaYa/Sarit Centre don't cross list their physical classifieds (I think they used to once albeit haphazardly) from their noticeboards.

-- Josiah Mugambi

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Nicholas Mutinda <mutindah@gmail.com>wrote:

...

The most followed traditional classifieds are digger classifieds and nation classifieds. That means that they should be the leaders in taking the trade digital. How does n-soko rank in comparison to the likes of dealfish, and pigiame?

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Paul Kevin <paultitude@gmail.com wrote:

...

Im waiting to see when classifieds get of the web and into peoples handheld devices

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Timothy Mutugi < timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:

> @Njihia > > That's a very good article. > > Please also take into consideration that dealfish, pigiame, etc. are > also in competition with the "Bricks" solutions e.g. The Adpost > bulletin board at Odeon cinema or the bulletin board at Sarit > Centre... > > On 11/24/11, Mugambi Kimathi <skunkworksjahazi@gmail.com> wrote: > > Interesting Article.. > > > > in my "opinion" the reason as to why m and e commerce in Kenya is > closing > > shop is that it has not evolved. instead we all jump to online > businesses > > without solid brick and mortar businesses. IMHO kalahari should have > been > > started by the likes of Nakumatt. They can give great discount and > know the > > market well, heck… they even know their customer habits from the > smart > > card. surly the can offer me a product they know i always buy at > great > > discount. > > > > > > I blame the OverHYPE of Online and Mobile Business. Just because we > are > > techies doesn't mean everyone is a techie. > > > > My theory on how to be successful online in Kenya. > > > > First build a "factory" (business that generates cash) understand it > then > > move processes to an online business.. slowly pushing your customers > to > > online. > > > > It may take a while before you move from brick and mortar -to- > hybrid -to- > > online thats why you will always need the factory to be running. > > > > > > question for online classifieds ads:- > > > > a) do we actually do Market Research to see if they work. What do > people > > want. > > > > b) How much is the return on investment. i.e. How long shall you > keep > > running before you get tired of taking photos of cars? > > > > c) Yes you have simplified the process but have lessened the the > shopping > > experience. (Smell, Taste, Feel) > > > > > > MK > > > > > > On Thursday, November 24, 2011, aki wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Mbugua Njihia > >> <mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > >> 'mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke');> > >> > wrote: > >> > >>> The recent closure of Kalahari locally and in other African > markets put > >>> into sharp focus the current state of m and e commerce in Kenya. A > number > >>> of conversations I had in the past week pointed to the need for a > >>> service > >>> that “breaks the ice” for consumers to appreciate buying and > selling of > >>> goods online and on mobile. The service of choice was seen as > >>> classifieds. > >>> **** > >>> > >>> A simple search for classifieds online will bring a whole list of > >>> providers, with all, more often than not calling themselves the > number > >>> one > >>> destination. Cutting to the chase, let us look at those I consider > major > >>> players and what they may or may not be doing right. - > bit.ly/u4aeBk**** > >>> > >> > >> > >> @Njihia. A very nice and balanced article :-) I like the use of > words > >> "scraping", this is a real problem I faced early on, on the site I > >> ocassionaly maintain. I had to block static ip addresses just to > >> get > >> around > >> such content use abuses. For those who want to know the reality of > online > >> business, it requires a 100% commitment to such a project but > financially > >> the returns in our market are not worth the turnovers unless you > are ready > >> to put in a 3-5 year plan. How DealFish is going to pull through > such > >> remains to be seen, I'd still ask computer programmers to ensure > that > >> Nation and Standard media have the latest technology methods > available to > >> them to be effectively competitive. > >> > >> Enjoyed reading your article. > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> **--If I ever wrote code on a system for the better of consumer > freedoms > >> or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with people who > share the > >> same views than give out a single line of code to code thieves who > will > >> use > >> it to defeat the principles of freedom and choices---2011--Me--** > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >

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--

Ali A. Nasser Email: anasser@wenyebiashara.biz yebne1@gmail.com Tel: 0752 524 723 skype: ali.yebne*

"A dog survived by its love for The People of the Cave, how then can I perish with the love of Family of the House of the Muhammad(SAWW)?**"* _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

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If I owned Nakumatt I would not let some third party company have access to my catalogue, at least not just yet. I would also not buy a solution peddled by a vendor. Instead, I would put together a team and have them create the online presence and keep on improving it over and over again, untill it was better than Amazon, Ebay and Walmart combined. But then again, if I owned Nakumatt I wouldn't be writing this. :-) On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 3:00 PM, John Gitau <jgitau@gmail.com> wrote:

I can assure you all the mega stores are working on their online strategy.some are ahead of others.....some might launch over xmas period...most will opt not to....what i can guarantee is they are working on it.....

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 24, 2011, at 2:33 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

Me too! I often visit Sarit just to check out their noticeboard.

With all their revenue, I wonder why Nakumatt is yet to do anything substantial online. Even their website is ish ish. My reasoning is that the management there sees an online store as a cost center, and not a profit center.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Josiah Mugambi < <jmugambi@gmail.com> jmugambi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I have always wondered to myself why Nakumatt (or Uchumi or Tuskys etc) do not have an online store.. or why YaYa/Sarit Centre don't cross list their physical classifieds (I think they used to once albeit haphazardly) from their noticeboards.

-- Josiah Mugambi

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Nicholas Mutinda < <mutindah@gmail.com> mutindah@gmail.com> wrote:

...

The most followed traditional classifieds are digger classifieds and nation classifieds. That means that they should be the leaders in taking the trade digital. How does n-soko rank in comparison to the likes of dealfish, and pigiame?

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Paul Kevin < <paultitude@gmail.com> paultitude@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Im waiting to see when classifieds get of the web and into peoples handheld devices

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Timothy Mutugi <<timothymutugi@gmail.com> timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

@Njihia

That's a very good article.

Please also take into consideration that dealfish, pigiame, etc. are also in competition with the "Bricks" solutions e.g. The Adpost bulletin board at Odeon cinema or the bulletin board at Sarit Centre...

On 11/24/11, Mugambi Kimathi < <skunkworksjahazi@gmail.com> skunkworksjahazi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Interesting Article..

in my "opinion" the reason as to why m and e commerce in Kenya is closing shop is that it has not evolved. instead we all jump to online businesses without solid brick and mortar businesses. IMHO kalahari should have been started by the likes of Nakumatt. They can give great discount and know the market well, heck… they even know their customer habits from the smart card. surly the can offer me a product they know i always buy at great discount.

I blame the OverHYPE of Online and Mobile Business. Just because we are techies doesn't mean everyone is a techie.

My theory on how to be successful online in Kenya.

First build a "factory" (business that generates cash) understand it then move processes to an online business.. slowly pushing your customers to online.

It may take a while before you move from brick and mortar -to- hybrid -to- online thats why you will always need the factory to be running.

question for online classifieds ads:-

a) do we actually do Market Research to see if they work. What do people want.

b) How much is the return on investment. i.e. How long shall you keep running before you get tired of taking photos of cars?

c) Yes you have simplified the process but have lessened the the shopping experience. (Smell, Taste, Feel)

MK

On Thursday, November 24, 2011, aki wrote:

> > > On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Mbugua Njihia > < <mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke>mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > ' <mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke>mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke');> > > wrote: > >> The recent closure of Kalahari locally and in other African markets put >> into sharp focus the current state of m and e commerce in Kenya. A number >> of conversations I had in the past week pointed to the need for a >> service >> that “breaks the ice” for consumers to appreciate buying and selling of >> goods online and on mobile. The service of choice was seen as >> classifieds. >> **** >> >> A simple search for classifieds online will bring a whole list of >> providers, with all, more often than not calling themselves the number >> one >> destination. Cutting to the chase, let us look at those I consider major >> players and what they may or may not be doing right. - <http://bit.ly/u4aeBk****>bit.ly/u4aeBk**** >> > > > @Njihia. A very nice and balanced article :-) I like the use of words > "scraping", this is a real problem I faced early on, on the site I > ocassionaly maintain. I had to block static ip addresses just to get > around > such content use abuses. For those who want to know the reality of online > business, it requires a 100% commitment to such a project but financially > the returns in our market are not worth the turnovers unless you are ready > to put in a 3-5 year plan. How DealFish is going to pull through such > remains to be seen, I'd still ask computer programmers to ensure that > Nation and Standard media have the latest technology methods available to > them to be effectively competitive. > > Enjoyed reading your article. > > > -- > > **--If I ever wrote code on a system for the better of consumer freedoms > or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with people who share the > same views than give out a single line of code to code thieves who will > use > it to defeat the principles of freedom and choices---2011--Me--** > >

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So what is stopping us from setting up an online store that provides goods and services from these supermarkets On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe the feel the online population is too small to warrant such an effort, however they fail to see that this can be done with minimal investments and staff, hence bringing in more compared to investments.

Even in the US, brick and mortar stores are still performing poorly when it comes to online presence. In South Korea, physical stores are however selling online aggressively with online presence having a huge stake.

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Crowd source the data....the data will be more accurate for everyday things.....start small..like shoppers walk to nakumatt and send to a shortcode [item] [size] [price] .... Initially your site could just be used for price comparison, rants etc..over time who knows Gitau Sent from my iPad On Nov 24, 2011, at 3:38 PM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Paul Kevin <paultitude@gmail.com> wrote: So what is stopping us from setting up an online store that provides goods and services from these supermarkets

@Paul, IMHO, for such a store to have a chance at success, it would need to have access to those Supermarket's catalogue database. Then, you need to find a seemless way for customers to pay and a delivery mechanism that works.

I think the reason such online stores have failed in the past is because they attempted to duplicate the supermarket's catalogue, i.e. you go to uchumi, get items and prices and re-enter them into your application.

The delivery mechanism has been proven, courtesy of the Pizza delivery guys, payment methods are quickly maturing, e.g. pesapal, so now its for a clever person to convince these supermarkets to open their data, which I think will not happen soon. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------

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Wahh ! Techmtaa vs Dealfish is turning kali !! Excerpt from http://www.techmtaa.com/2011/11/24/why-moses-kemibaro-is-leaving-dealfish/ ********** "First, lets face it. Moses (Moses reviews) was not that great manager who Dealfish could not do without. The guy was being paid US $5,000 (yeah Ksh 500,000) to do nothing but roam around Lavington, iHub and few sojourns in Kampala, the Congo (Congo reviews) and Lagos. Moses rarely ventured or ventures beyond the leafy suburbs like Lavington, Kileleshwa an...d Riverside (Riverside reviews) (the guy went to Hillcrest. WTF (WTF reviews)! do you expect) while the product he is supposed to be selling is a mass market product. Moses was supposed to connect and understand the user who resides in mogotio but can, from the click of a mouse, buy something from someone in Nairobi, Mombasa or wherever." On 24 November 2011 16:03, Steve Obbayi <steve@sobbayi.com> wrote:

Yeah sure one of the biggest problems in kenya is the delivery to consumer homes.

In the US they just leave the package at our doorsteps. You show up at home in the evening and find the package comfortably waiting for you. If it needed a signature and no one is at home they would return again the next day, and agree on a convenient time to deliver.

Now in Nairobi I dont think it will be wise to leave a package on someones doorstep. Okay wait or worse. At the gate.

Now the likes of Walmart, Best buy, Publix etc with Brick n Mortar stores, outsource delivery to UPS n Fedex etc or you can also specify a branch which you pick up your goods. Make the purchase online and just passby at a convenient time on your way home from work to pick up and save the hustle of lining up at the cashiers. Walmart calls it Site to Store.

----- "Peter Karunyu" <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Paul Kevin <paultitude@gmail.com> wrote:

So what is stopping us from setting up an online store that provides goods and services from these supermarkets

...

@Paul, IMHO, for such a store to have a chance at success, it would need to have access to those Supermarket's catalogue database. Then, you need to find a seemless way for customers to pay and a delivery mechanism that works.

...

I think the reason such online stores have failed in the past is because they attempted to duplicate the supermarket's catalogue, i.e. you go to uchumi, get items and prices and re-enter them into your application.

The delivery mechanism has been proven, courtesy of the Pizza delivery guys, payment methods are quickly maturing, e.g. pesapal, so now its for a clever person to convince these supermarkets to open their data, which I think will not happen soon.

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No… No… guys why bother going online. at least not yet. What is the greatest assets that Nakumatt that no other vendor or third party can do a) can give great discounts b) have data on all your spending habits.. contacts.. basically a profile of you from the smart card. The strategy STEP 1: Personalized Discounts. If you profile my spending items and know the one item that i spend on constantly (habit of buying) and give it to me at discount… you have a winner. How to do it Send me an SMS a personalized SMS with the discounted item that is of value to me.. explain that due to tough economic times you love me.. e.g. "Dear Mugambi, We are giving only you a special price for Diapers from Ksh 650 to Ksh 600. Simply present your smart card when checking out to get the discount. Thank you for being a valued customer".. I can tell you i will jump from my seat and buy the diapers and other items in Nakumatt, and even tell my friends how i get special discount. Think about it. this are tough economic times. How many Kenyans rushed to Kobil on Tuesdays and Fridays because fuel was Ksh 2/= less. That is less than 2% Discount. How much resource will it take to create such a system.. very little.. STEP 2: Personalized URL - Everyone thinks they are important and special. i am not a "kawaida" mwananchi Once I am baited to the SMS discount item, i begin to want more control of the particular items i would like discounted. Nakumatt then creates a specialized page with my discounted items (which they profile). from there i can have control to choose at least 2 items out of 20 to which i get discount. In addition i get exclusive access to other promotions based on my profile and my net worth. all it take is to alert me of the page to select my items. e.g http://www.nakumatt.co.ke/@mugambi The result of the above strategy is that you would increase your revenue and data on consumers. Thats how i would do it if i were nakumatt. MK On Thursday, November 24, 2011, Mugambi Kimathi wrote:

Interesting Article..

in my "opinion" the reason as to why m and e commerce in Kenya is closing shop is that it has not evolved. instead we all jump to online businesses without solid brick and mortar businesses. IMHO kalahari should have been started by the likes of Nakumatt. They can give great discount and know the market well, heck… they even know their customer habits from the smart card. surly the can offer me a product they know i always buy at great discount.

I blame the OverHYPE of Online and Mobile Business. Just because we are techies doesn't mean everyone is a techie.

My theory on how to be successful online in Kenya.

First build a "factory" (business that generates cash) understand it then move processes to an online business.. slowly pushing your customers to online.

It may take a while before you move from brick and mortar -to- hybrid -to- online thats why you will always need the factory to be running.

question for online classifieds ads:-

a) do we actually do Market Research to see if they work. What do people want.

b) How much is the return on investment. i.e. How long shall you keep running before you get tired of taking photos of cars?

c) Yes you have simplified the process but have lessened the the shopping experience. (Smell, Taste, Feel)

MK

On Thursday, November 24, 2011, aki wrote:

...

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 7:08 AM, Mbugua Njihia <mbugua@symbiotic.co.ke>wrote:

...

The recent closure of Kalahari locally and in other African markets put into sharp focus the current state of m and e commerce in Kenya. A number of conversations I had in the past week pointed to the need for a service that “breaks the ice” for consumers to appreciate buying and selling of goods online and on mobile. The service of choice was seen as classifieds. ****

A simple search for classifieds online will bring a whole list of providers, with all, more often than not calling themselves the number one destination. Cutting to the chase, let us look at those I consider major players and what they may or may not be doing right. - bit.ly/u4aeBk****

@Njihia. A very nice and balanced article :-) I like the use of words "scraping", this is a real problem I faced early on, on the site I ocassionaly maintain. I had to block static ip addresses just to get around such content use abuses. For those who want to know the reality of online business, it requires a 100% commitment to such a project but financially the returns in our market are not worth the turnovers unless you are ready to put in a 3-5 year plan. How DealFish is going to pull through such remains to be seen, I'd still ask computer programmers to ensure that Nation and Standard media have the latest technology methods available to them to be effectively competitive.

Enjoyed reading your article.

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**--If I ever wrote code on a system for the better of consumer freedoms or choice, I'd rather create the complete system with people who share the same views than give out a single line of code to code thieves who will use it to defeat the principles of freedom and choices---2011--Me--**