http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympi... And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions. Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details. Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers. I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online coursesemphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples. Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being askedthe value it would bring to Wanjiku! So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today! On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions. Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details. Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers. I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ And no, Kenya is not in the top 50 ______________________________ _________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/ viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe sad reality. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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@Bundi,It is a sad reality indeed. Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that veryfew know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it worksHave witnessed a programmer replace an average case sorting solution of O(n log n) with an O(n · n!) - the dreaded bogo sort on a production system. On Monday, September 5, 2016 11:09 AM, b bundi <beunra@gmail.com> wrote: "i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe sad reality. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online coursesemphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples. Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being askedthe value it would bring to Wanjiku! So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today! On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions. Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details. Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers. I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ And no, Kenya is not in the top 50 ______________________________ _________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/ viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ______________________________ _________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/ viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ______________________________ _________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/ viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch. That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster. If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals. I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies. And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance. One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe
sad reality.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported. Antony On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch.
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals.
I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies.
And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance.
One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe
sad reality.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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Eh, you guys!
*That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.*
*> Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works* Wah! On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported.
Antony
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch.
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals.
I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies.
And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance.
One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe
sad reality.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Eh, you guys!
*That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.*
*> Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works*
Wah!
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported.
Antony
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch.
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals.
I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies.
And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance.
One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe
sad reality.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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-- Ian Madege Software Engineer
It depends on your definition of a good programmer.
From a software engineering perspective it has to be a programmer that is able to solve a user’s problem in an effective and economic manner.
Regards, Alex From: Ian Madege via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke] Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 2:06 PM To: Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Eh, you guys!
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works
Wah! On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported. Antony On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch. That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster. If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals. I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies. And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance. One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: "i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe sad reality. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples. Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku! So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today! On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions. Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details. Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers. I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/> And no, Kenya is not in the top 50 ______________________________ _________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/skunkworks <http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/ viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke <http://my.co.ke/> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke <http://my.co.ke/> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Ian Madege Software Engineer
@Alex, here's an interesting twist... The eCitizen portal was done by programmers, the software running Angani's platform was/is done by programmers, the software running on Curiosity was/is done by programmers... All are software, done in different platforms, with vastly different levels of complexity, and strictly speaking, all were done my programmers or software engineers. So does the definition of a good programmer carry across the three scenarios? What defines a good programmer? On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
It depends on your definition of a good programmer.
From a software engineering perspective it has to be a programmer that is able to solve a user’s problem in an effective and economic manner.
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Ian Madege via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 2:06 PM *To:* Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Eh, you guys!
*That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.*
*> **Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works*
Wah!
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported.
Antony
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch.
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals.
I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies.
And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance.
One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!"
hehehehehehehe
sad reality.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses
emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid
theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked
the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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--
Ian Madege
Software Engineer
Key would be being able to address the changing needs of the end user. Complexity does not necessarily mean you are good. It is being able to apply your knowledge, skill and attitudes to address the changing needs of the end user in an economic and effective way. Regards, Alex From: Peter Karunyu [mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 2:54 PM To: Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> Cc: Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? @Alex, here's an interesting twist... The eCitizen portal was done by programmers, the software running Angani's platform was/is done by programmers, the software running on Curiosity was/is done by programmers... All are software, done in different platforms, with vastly different levels of complexity, and strictly speaking, all were done my programmers or software engineers. So does the definition of a good programmer carry across the three scenarios? What defines a good programmer? On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: It depends on your definition of a good programmer.
From a software engineering perspective it has to be a programmer that is able to solve a user’s problem in an effective and economic manner.
Regards, Alex From: Ian Madege via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ] Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 2:06 PM To: Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com <mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com> >; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com <mailto:tmndungu@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Eh, you guys!
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works
Wah! On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported. Antony On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch. That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster. If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals. I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies. And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance. One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: "i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe sad reality. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples. Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku! So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today! On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions. Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details. Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers. I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/> And no, Kenya is not in the top 50 ______________________________ _________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/skunkworks <http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/ viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke <http://my.co.ke/> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke <http://my.co.ke/> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Ian Madege Software Engineer
Am no programmer but this sounds like the same problem with our economy. No one is ready to grow manufacturing but prefer importing the ready product. On Sep 5, 2016 15:01, "Alex Watila via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Key would be being able to address the changing needs of the end user.
Complexity does not necessarily mean you are good.
It is being able to apply your knowledge, skill and attitudes to address the changing needs of the end user in an economic and effective way.
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Peter Karunyu [mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 2:54 PM *To:* Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
@Alex, here's an interesting twist...
The eCitizen portal was done by programmers, the software running Angani's platform was/is done by programmers, the software running on Curiosity was/is done by programmers...
All are software, done in different platforms, with vastly different levels of complexity, and strictly speaking, all were done my programmers or software engineers.
So does the definition of a good programmer carry across the three scenarios?
What defines a good programmer?
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
It depends on your definition of a good programmer.
From a software engineering perspective it has to be a programmer that is able to solve a user’s problem in an effective and economic manner.
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Ian Madege via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 2:06 PM *To:* Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Eh, you guys!
*That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.*
*> **Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works*
Wah!
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported.
Antony
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch.
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals.
I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies.
And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance.
One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!"
hehehehehehehe
sad reality.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses
emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid
theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked
the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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--
Ian Madege
Software Engineer
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Having worked with both clients in the country and outside, The bottle neck in Kenya is the client, some of them have Big requirements but expect you to use minamlistic resource.A good example is some one wants you to make an ecommerce platform (like amazon) using WordPress and achieve the same efficiency like amazon? As much their are plugins that do these out of the box they are never 100% solution and they are just meet to meet the basic. Most startups even after receiving funding would rather not pay a developer well who makes sure there systems run effectively, but spend it on something else. In the long run you get a quack guy who will just give you shit. I will compare the scenario here with Doctors in Kenya. Most of the good ones are either taken by Big cooperates or work for companies outside Kenya On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM Job Muriuki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Am no programmer but this sounds like the same problem with our economy. No one is ready to grow manufacturing but prefer importing the ready product.
On Sep 5, 2016 15:01, "Alex Watila via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Key would be being able to address the changing needs of the end user.
Complexity does not necessarily mean you are good.
It is being able to apply your knowledge, skill and attitudes to address the changing needs of the end user in an economic and effective way.
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Peter Karunyu [mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 2:54 PM *To:* Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
@Alex, here's an interesting twist...
The eCitizen portal was done by programmers, the software running Angani's platform was/is done by programmers, the software running on Curiosity was/is done by programmers...
All are software, done in different platforms, with vastly different levels of complexity, and strictly speaking, all were done my programmers or software engineers.
So does the definition of a good programmer carry across the three scenarios?
What defines a good programmer?
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
It depends on your definition of a good programmer.
From a software engineering perspective it has to be a programmer that is able to solve a user’s problem in an effective and economic manner.
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Ian Madege via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 2:06 PM *To:* Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Eh, you guys!
*That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.*
*> **Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works*
Wah!
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported.
Antony
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch.
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals.
I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies.
And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance.
One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!"
hehehehehehehe
sad reality.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses
emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid
theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked
the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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It comes down to investment. For instance in SA, when a development company is to undertake a big project they bring together a team of Analysts, Developers etc of about 8 to 25 people depending on the size for 6 -12 months, these guys earn an equivalent of Directors remuneration for a listed company. They will design and come up with a shell of the system, after that a few are retained while the rest move to projects elsewhere and the lesser experienced guys take over for implementation and stuff. Software development graduates are also able to afford house mortgages within 2 years or so of experience, while their peers take several years to get to that. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Ian Madege via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Having worked with both clients in the country and outside, The bottle neck in Kenya is the client, some of them have Big requirements but expect you to use minamlistic resource.A good example is some one wants you to make an ecommerce platform (like amazon) using WordPress and achieve the same efficiency like amazon? As much their are plugins that do these out of the box they are never 100% solution and they are just meet to meet the basic. Most startups even after receiving funding would rather not pay a developer well who makes sure there systems run effectively, but spend it on something else. In the long run you get a quack guy who will just give you shit.
I will compare the scenario here with Doctors in Kenya. Most of the good ones are either taken by Big cooperates or work for companies outside Kenya
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM Job Muriuki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Am no programmer but this sounds like the same problem with our economy. No one is ready to grow manufacturing but prefer importing the ready product.
On Sep 5, 2016 15:01, "Alex Watila via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Key would be being able to address the changing needs of the end user.
Complexity does not necessarily mean you are good.
It is being able to apply your knowledge, skill and attitudes to address the changing needs of the end user in an economic and effective way.
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Peter Karunyu [mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 2:54 PM *To:* Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
@Alex, here's an interesting twist...
The eCitizen portal was done by programmers, the software running Angani's platform was/is done by programmers, the software running on Curiosity was/is done by programmers...
All are software, done in different platforms, with vastly different levels of complexity, and strictly speaking, all were done my programmers or software engineers.
So does the definition of a good programmer carry across the three scenarios?
What defines a good programmer?
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
It depends on your definition of a good programmer.
From a software engineering perspective it has to be a programmer that is able to solve a user’s problem in an effective and economic manner.
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Ian Madege via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 2:06 PM *To:* Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Eh, you guys!
*That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.*
*> **Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works*
Wah!
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported.
Antony
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch.
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals.
I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies.
And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance.
One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!"
hehehehehehehe
sad reality.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses
emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid
theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked
the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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“More data more productivity – When a Mexican citizen migrates to the U.S. he or she is estimated by economists to be five times more productive than one who stays at home. Although the United States has more physical capital than Mexico in the form of machinery and tools, it is not enough to account for a fivefold difference. Instead, by the World Bank’s estimate, the average inhabitant of the United States has access to $418,000 in intangible wealth, while the same figure for the average inhabitant of Mexico is only $34,000.[12] In the study, the authors concluded that the bulk of most wealthy countries’ wealth is now intangible. The World Bank attributes much of this intangible wealth to a more efficient judicial system, established property rights, and less corrupt governments but in practice the vast majority of a country’s intangible assets are in the form of data.” From Where Data Is Wealth: Profiting From Data Storage in a Digital Society By: J. Bruce Daley From: Antony Ndung'u [mailto:tmndungu@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 6:22 PM To: Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Cc: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>; Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? It comes down to investment. For instance in SA, when a development company is to undertake a big project they bring together a team of Analysts, Developers etc of about 8 to 25 people depending on the size for 6 -12 months, these guys earn an equivalent of Directors remuneration for a listed company. They will design and come up with a shell of the system, after that a few are retained while the rest move to projects elsewhere and the lesser experienced guys take over for implementation and stuff. Software development graduates are also able to afford house mortgages within 2 years or so of experience, while their peers take several years to get to that. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Ian Madege via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Having worked with both clients in the country and outside, The bottle neck in Kenya is the client, some of them have Big requirements but expect you to use minamlistic resource.A good example is some one wants you to make an ecommerce platform (like amazon) using WordPress and achieve the same efficiency like amazon? As much their are plugins that do these out of the box they are never 100% solution and they are just meet to meet the basic. Most startups even after receiving funding would rather not pay a developer well who makes sure there systems run effectively, but spend it on something else. In the long run you get a quack guy who will just give you shit. I will compare the scenario here with Doctors in Kenya. Most of the good ones are either taken by Big cooperates or work for companies outside Kenya On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM Job Muriuki via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Am no programmer but this sounds like the same problem with our economy. No one is ready to grow manufacturing but prefer importing the ready product. On Sep 5, 2016 15:01, "Alex Watila via skunkworks" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Key would be being able to address the changing needs of the end user. Complexity does not necessarily mean you are good. It is being able to apply your knowledge, skill and attitudes to address the changing needs of the end user in an economic and effective way. Regards, Alex From: Peter Karunyu [mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com <mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com> ] Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 2:54 PM To: Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> > Cc: Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com <mailto:imadege1990@gmail.com> >; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com <mailto:tmndungu@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? @Alex, here's an interesting twist... The eCitizen portal was done by programmers, the software running Angani's platform was/is done by programmers, the software running on Curiosity was/is done by programmers... All are software, done in different platforms, with vastly different levels of complexity, and strictly speaking, all were done my programmers or software engineers. So does the definition of a good programmer carry across the three scenarios? What defines a good programmer? On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: It depends on your definition of a good programmer.
From a software engineering perspective it has to be a programmer that is able to solve a user’s problem in an effective and economic manner.
Regards, Alex From: Ian Madege via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ] Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 2:06 PM To: Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com <mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com> >; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com <mailto:tmndungu@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Eh, you guys!
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works
Wah! On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported. Antony On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch. That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster. If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals. I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies. And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance. One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: "i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe sad reality. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples. Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku! So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today! On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions. Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details. Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers. I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/> And no, Kenya is not in the top 50 ______________________________ _________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/skunkworks <http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/ viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke <http://my.co.ke/> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke <http://my.co.ke/> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Ian Madege Software Engineer _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -- Ian Madege Software Engineer _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@Alex, I have been mulling over your comment... *> Complexity does not necessarily mean you are good.* I don't know why I am not fully convinced. A programmer able to design and develop a complex system successfully (i.e within time, budget and said system works as per spec), and one who bluntly put, cant (is over time, over budget and system doesn't work fully to spec). So this cannot be used as a measure of *good*? Help me understand your perspective. On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Alex Watila via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
*“More data more productivity – When a Mexican citizen migrates to the U.S. he or she is estimated by economists to be five times more productive than one who stays at home. Although the United States has more physical capital than Mexico in the form of machinery and tools, it is not enough to account for a fivefold difference. Instead, by the World Bank’s estimate, the average inhabitant of the United States has access to $418,000 in intangible wealth, while the same figure for the average inhabitant of Mexico is only $34,000.[12] In the study, the authors concluded that the bulk of most wealthy countries’ wealth is now intangible. The World Bank attributes much of this intangible wealth to a more efficient judicial system, established property rights, and less corrupt governments but in practice the vast majority of a country’s intangible assets are in the form of data.”* From
*Where Data Is Wealth: Profiting From Data Storage in a Digital Society* By: J. Bruce Daley
*From:* Antony Ndung'u [mailto:tmndungu@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 6:22 PM *To:* Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Cc:* Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com>; Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk>
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
It comes down to investment. For instance in SA, when a development company is to undertake a big project they bring together a team of Analysts, Developers etc of about 8 to 25 people depending on the size for 6 -12 months, these guys earn an equivalent of Directors remuneration for a listed company. They will design and come up with a shell of the system, after that a few are retained while the rest move to projects elsewhere and the lesser experienced guys take over for implementation and stuff.
Software development graduates are also able to afford house mortgages within 2 years or so of experience, while their peers take several years to get to that.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Ian Madege via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Having worked with both clients in the country and outside, The bottle neck in Kenya is the client, some of them have Big requirements but expect you to use minamlistic resource.A good example is some one wants you to make an ecommerce platform (like amazon) using WordPress and achieve the same efficiency like amazon? As much their are plugins that do these out of the box they are never 100% solution and they are just meet to meet the basic. Most startups even after receiving funding would rather not pay a developer well who makes sure there systems run effectively, but spend it on something else. In the long run you get a quack guy who will just give you shit.
I will compare the scenario here with Doctors in Kenya. Most of the good ones are either taken by Big cooperates or work for companies outside Kenya
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM Job Muriuki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Am no programmer but this sounds like the same problem with our economy. No one is ready to grow manufacturing but prefer importing the ready product.
On Sep 5, 2016 15:01, "Alex Watila via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Key would be being able to address the changing needs of the end user.
Complexity does not necessarily mean you are good.
It is being able to apply your knowledge, skill and attitudes to address the changing needs of the end user in an economic and effective way.
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Peter Karunyu [mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 2:54 PM *To:* Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> *Cc:* Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
@Alex, here's an interesting twist...
The eCitizen portal was done by programmers, the software running Angani's platform was/is done by programmers, the software running on Curiosity was/is done by programmers...
All are software, done in different platforms, with vastly different levels of complexity, and strictly speaking, all were done my programmers or software engineers.
So does the definition of a good programmer carry across the three scenarios?
What defines a good programmer?
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
It depends on your definition of a good programmer.
From a software engineering perspective it has to be a programmer that is able to solve a user’s problem in an effective and economic manner.
Regards,
Alex
*From:* Ian Madege via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke] *Sent:* Monday, September 5, 2016 2:06 PM *To:* Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>; Skunkworks Mailing List < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers?
Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Eh, you guys!
*That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.*
*> **Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works*
Wah!
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported.
Antony
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch.
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals.
I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies.
And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance.
One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
"i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!"
hehehehehehehe
sad reality.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses
emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples.
Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid
theoretical grounding
When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked
the value it would bring to Wanjiku!
So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today!
On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list
Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions.
Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details.
Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers.
I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems.
Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/>
And no, Kenya is not in the top 50
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@peter, That is why the measure of a good programmer is the ability of the developed system to meet the changing needs of the system. Maybe an excerpt from a paper I wrote a few years ago would help clarify the point I was making “2.1 What Is Quality Software? The definition of quality software has evolved over time. According to (Fox et al, 1997) software quality was initially defined as conformance to a standard or specification. Software quality was later on redefined as the ability of a software system to meet the evolving needs of the customer. To meet the evolving customer’s needs, a software system must be useful, usable, reliable, flexible, affordable, and available. In other words, quality software makes the life of the customer easier; has few errors; can easily be modified to suit the customers changing needs; is cost effective to buy and maintain; and the project to develop the software is successfully completed and delivers the promised software. (Stevens et al, 2000). The redefinition of software quality was important since it was possible to produce software that meets specifications but was not able to meet the evolving needs of the customer. Once software was unable to meet the customers evolving needs it was possible that the customer would stop using the software and consequently the software project would have been a failure. Please note that in the definition of software quality the criterion of “few errors” as opposed to “no errors” was used because the absence of an error during software testing does not prove that an error does not exist (Ross, 2005).”
From
Project Management Methodologies: Are They Sufficient To Develop Quality Software? By Alex Watila From: Peter Karunyu [mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 4:50 PM To: Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk>; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Cc: Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com>; Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? @Alex, I have been mulling over your comment...
Complexity does not necessarily mean you are good.
I don't know why I am not fully convinced. A programmer able to design and develop a complex system successfully (i.e within time, budget and said system works as per spec), and one who bluntly put, cant (is over time, over budget and system doesn't work fully to spec). So this cannot be used as a measure of good? Help me understand your perspective. On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Alex Watila via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: “More data more productivity – When a Mexican citizen migrates to the U.S. he or she is estimated by economists to be five times more productive than one who stays at home. Although the United States has more physical capital than Mexico in the form of machinery and tools, it is not enough to account for a fivefold difference. Instead, by the World Bank’s estimate, the average inhabitant of the United States has access to $418,000 in intangible wealth, while the same figure for the average inhabitant of Mexico is only $34,000.[12] In the study, the authors concluded that the bulk of most wealthy countries’ wealth is now intangible. The World Bank attributes much of this intangible wealth to a more efficient judicial system, established property rights, and less corrupt governments but in practice the vast majority of a country’s intangible assets are in the form of data.” From Where Data Is Wealth: Profiting From Data Storage in a Digital Society By: J. Bruce Daley From: Antony Ndung'u [mailto:tmndungu@gmail.com <mailto:tmndungu@gmail.com> ] Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 6:22 PM To: Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com <mailto:imadege1990@gmail.com> >; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > Cc: Job Muriuki <muriukin@gmail.com <mailto:muriukin@gmail.com> >; Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? It comes down to investment. For instance in SA, when a development company is to undertake a big project they bring together a team of Analysts, Developers etc of about 8 to 25 people depending on the size for 6 -12 months, these guys earn an equivalent of Directors remuneration for a listed company. They will design and come up with a shell of the system, after that a few are retained while the rest move to projects elsewhere and the lesser experienced guys take over for implementation and stuff. Software development graduates are also able to afford house mortgages within 2 years or so of experience, while their peers take several years to get to that. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Ian Madege via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Having worked with both clients in the country and outside, The bottle neck in Kenya is the client, some of them have Big requirements but expect you to use minamlistic resource.A good example is some one wants you to make an ecommerce platform (like amazon) using WordPress and achieve the same efficiency like amazon? As much their are plugins that do these out of the box they are never 100% solution and they are just meet to meet the basic. Most startups even after receiving funding would rather not pay a developer well who makes sure there systems run effectively, but spend it on something else. In the long run you get a quack guy who will just give you shit. I will compare the scenario here with Doctors in Kenya. Most of the good ones are either taken by Big cooperates or work for companies outside Kenya On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 5:05 PM Job Muriuki via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Am no programmer but this sounds like the same problem with our economy. No one is ready to grow manufacturing but prefer importing the ready product. On Sep 5, 2016 15:01, "Alex Watila via skunkworks" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Key would be being able to address the changing needs of the end user. Complexity does not necessarily mean you are good. It is being able to apply your knowledge, skill and attitudes to address the changing needs of the end user in an economic and effective way. Regards, Alex From: Peter Karunyu [mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com <mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com> ] Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 2:54 PM To: Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> > Cc: Ian Madege <imadege1990@gmail.com <mailto:imadege1990@gmail.com> >; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com <mailto:tmndungu@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? @Alex, here's an interesting twist... The eCitizen portal was done by programmers, the software running Angani's platform was/is done by programmers, the software running on Curiosity was/is done by programmers... All are software, done in different platforms, with vastly different levels of complexity, and strictly speaking, all were done my programmers or software engineers. So does the definition of a good programmer carry across the three scenarios? What defines a good programmer? On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Watila <awatila@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:awatila@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: It depends on your definition of a good programmer.
From a software engineering perspective it has to be a programmer that is able to solve a user’s problem in an effective and economic manner.
Regards, Alex From: Ian Madege via skunkworks [mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ] Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 2:06 PM To: Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com <mailto:pkarunyu@gmail.com> >; Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> >; Antony Ndung'u <tmndungu@gmail.com <mailto:tmndungu@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Which country has the best programmers? Depends which developers you hang around with. I have met many who are very good. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 2:03 PM Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: Eh, you guys!
That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster.
Have seen several codes done by Kenya programmers and one common thing is that very few know when to use IF.....THEN vs IF..THEN...ELSE vs CASE..... or when to use REPEAT VS DO...WHILE vs FOR constructs. They are just mixed up so long as it works
Wah! On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Antony Ndung'u via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: In my opinion the main problem in Kenya is lack of exposure. I've seen in other countries where 2nd years university students are involved in writing specs, development of software in financial, manufacturing industry etc and by the time they graduate within 2 years they are ready to be involved in large projects since they have already created enough bugs and learnt from them. While its important to have a good theoretical background, without practice in real world you will just be like someone who went to the best driving school in the world but never driven a car on the road. Investment in Software development in Kenya is relatively low and that's why systems in Banking, Insurance, hospitals etc is mostly imported. Antony On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: The problem is without these fundamentals its really hard to build system that scale from scratch. That's probably why most Kenyan devs are only good at creating database backed applications with indices and that's the furthest they go. Ask any of them how the indices actually work and all they can say is they make the searches faster. If Kenyan devs want to target employment in big tech companies they have to really grasp these fundamentals. I have interacted with many undergraduate interns from Egypt and they are really into these concepts and they are getting internships and jobs at big tech companies. And its not that we don't have the brains, we just lack the relevant guidance. One good thing for the big tech companies in Kenya to do is to start sponsoring coding competitions that will test on these concepts between Kenyan universities. Kenyans have the ability to get really good at anything given the motivation. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:09 AM, b bundi via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: "i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku!" hehehehehehehe sad reality. On Mon, Sep 5, 2016 at 11:02 AM, Shadrack Mwaniki via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: A sound theoretical basis is very critical especially at the undergraduate level. A look at MIT online courses emphasis on the theoretical grounding and exemplifying the same using real life examples. Our universities on the other hand emphasize more on real life cases (employability) as opposed to solid theoretical grounding When i opted to try and investigate a possible solution to P vs NP problem as my masters thesis, i kept being asked the value it would bring to Wanjiku! So you can imagine if Michael Farady was a Kenyan researching of electromagnetism and electrons flow! We would never have enjoyed the electricity as it is today! On Friday, September 2, 2016 10:17 AM, Solomon Kariri via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: This is what I can say about the reason why Kenya didn't make it to the top list Most of the questions of such websites require a certain set of skills set that is never taught in our universities but which should be taught. Most graduates in Kenya don't understand the meaning and/or significance of algorithm complexity analysis and/or some of the concepts tested in this competitions. Taking my case as an example, my lesson on dynamic programming, a topic that is center stone is such competition and which is actually of great use in real life went as far as telling me how to multiply a chain of matrices and then telling me that the way I parenthesize the matrices changes the number of scala multiplications required to solve the whole problem. And that was the end. It wasn't until years after college that my feeling of lack of understanding lead me to investigate and read on such concepts into details. Most Kenyan students don't know why quick sort is O(nlogn) in average case and O(n^2) in worst case and usually end up memorizing this time complexities since they know in the exam they are the only ones that will be asked. When learning mathematics, the mathematics teacher as good enough to proof to me that the sum of the first n integers is (n2+n)/2 but my algorithms lecturer never mentioned that the reason O(n^2) algorithms are O(n^2) is because for each iteration they take n then n-1 all the way to zero (comparisons/swaps/the operation of interest) and the total number of operations is the sum of the first n integers. I know some might say that lecturer is only supposed to give you guidance, but I have seen lecturers from MIT online and they do emphasize and show all these. The best time to learn these things are in campus, not when you are out in the field trying to develop systems and then stumbling upon problems. Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254721 956 172 Skype: solomonkariri On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:19 AM, Peter Karunyu via skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> > wrote: http://blog.hackerrank.com/ which-country-would-win-in- the-programming-olympics/ <http://blog.hackerrank.com/which-country-would-win-in-the-programming-olympics/> And no, Kenya is not in the top 50 ______________________________ _________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke <mailto:skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/skunkworks <http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks> ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/ viewtopic.php?f=24 <http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94> &t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke <http://my.co.ke/> _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke 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participants (8)
-
Alex Watila -
Antony Ndung'u -
b bundi -
Ian Madege -
Job Muriuki -
Peter Karunyu -
Shadrack Mwaniki -
Solomon Kariri