The points system is applicable in countries like Italy, but they one one of the worst records for bad drivers - and there must be some ground work before implementation, which does not exist
Hmm, I wonder why you thought it don't work well. I think its an excellent system if set up well. It both encourage good driving and penalise bad driving. Let me explain how. You start with for example 3 points. You can have a maximum of 12 points at which point you loose your license for a month the first time and longer after every other time you Max your points. The whole thing is also tied to the insurance. So you start with 3 points and a monthly insurance of $300 for example. Every year that pass without accident your points go down. This results in lower insurance premium. For example more than 10 points will trigger a $500 to $700 monthly premium. So you are not only hit by a fine, but a bad driver will find it harder to keep driving long before you Max your points. Results, cheaper to keep driving if you remain accident free and really expensive to keep on the road for repeat offence. That however mean the mechanics can't fix an accident car without police report. And the government has to keep everybody's driving history. Think its great because it even pay those who drive well. William
./Ok3ch
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 4:53 PM, MotoBaridi <motobaridi@gmail.com> wrote:
How about start every licenced driver with say, 100points. Deduct some points depending on offence. When you hit zero, strip the licence for, say 1yr? Or maybe ban the
person
from ever getting a licence again?
Of course, a bad driver could cause considerable damage before they run out of points, so maybe some offences could cost many points, eg drunk driving could cost 95points?.
Harsh, but people would get in line quickly.
// l
@William - all am saying is these ideas look good on paper, but behavioural change has all to do with behaviour and not legislation ./Ok3ch On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 5:40 PM, William Muriithi < william.muriithi@gmail.com> wrote:
The points system is applicable in countries like Italy, but they one one of the worst records for bad drivers - and there must be some ground work before implementation, which does not exist
Hmm, I wonder why you thought it don't work well. I think its an excellent system if set up well. It both encourage good driving and penalise bad driving. Let me explain how.
You start with for example 3 points. You can have a maximum of 12 points at which point you loose your license for a month the first time and longer after every other time you Max your points.
The whole thing is also tied to the insurance. So you start with 3 points and a monthly insurance of $300 for example. Every year that pass without accident your points go down. This results in lower insurance premium. For example more than 10 points will trigger a $500 to $700 monthly premium. So you are not only hit by a fine, but a bad driver will find it harder to keep driving long before you Max your points. Results, cheaper to keep driving if you remain accident free and really expensive to keep on the road for repeat offence.
That however mean the mechanics can't fix an accident car without police report. And the government has to keep everybody's driving history.
Think its great because it even pay those who drive well.
William
./Ok3ch
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 4:53 PM, MotoBaridi <motobaridi@gmail.com>
wrote:
How about start every licenced driver with say, 100points. Deduct some points depending on offence. When you hit zero, strip the licence for, say 1yr? Or maybe ban the
person
from ever getting a licence again?
Of course, a bad driver could cause considerable damage before they run out of points, so maybe some offences could cost many points, eg drunk driving could cost 95points?.
Harsh, but people would get in line quickly.
// l
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On 10 July 2013 18:09, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
@William - all am saying is these ideas look good on paper, but behavioural change has all to do with behaviour and not legislation
Okech , I think William is still on behavioral change only that he has gone further to suggest a process of conditioning. Methinks conditioning in such small doses will work better in the long run than a big bang changeover of rules and penalties. Does it surprise you that despite the dangers associated with certain vices people cant stop indulging? It is because logic or threats cannot overcome a long-term conditioning. I like the idea about insurance getting dearer and dearer for the bad driver, while getting cheaper and cheaper for the good driver. And how about a simple computer game, simulating a real local driving environment. The game rewards you depending on how well you drive. Make it popular via local media, give it away for free to kids and adults alike. After a while we will all be driving less like we on NFS or Grand Theft Auto<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_%28series%29> . -- Ndungi Kyalo
If only I knew Android/iOS development, I would make that game Kyalo suggests! In addition, I would make a flash card like app with all the road signs in .ke And finally, I would make another multi-platform app to be used by the Traffic Department to actually test people who are applying for DLs or renewing them. Aaah, things I would do if I was younger... On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10 July 2013 18:09, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
@William - all am saying is these ideas look good on paper, but behavioural change has all to do with behaviour and not legislation
Okech , I think William is still on behavioral change only that he has gone further to suggest a process of conditioning. Methinks conditioning in such small doses will work better in the long run than a big bang changeover of rules and penalties. Does it surprise you that despite the dangers associated with certain vices people cant stop indulging? It is because logic or threats cannot overcome a long-term conditioning.
I like the idea about insurance getting dearer and dearer for the bad driver, while getting cheaper and cheaper for the good driver.
And how about a simple computer game, simulating a real local driving environment. The game rewards you depending on how well you drive. Make it popular via local media, give it away for free to kids and adults alike. After a while we will all be driving less like we on NFS or Grand Theft Auto <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_%28series%29>.
-- Ndungi Kyalo
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
Hi Peter, On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
If only I knew Android/iOS development, I would make that game Kyalo suggests!
....... and what is *really* *stopping* you from learning Android or game development in any other platform??? I for one am certain that you are connected to the InterWebs right now ...... Martin
In addition, I would make a flash card like app with all the road signs in .ke
And finally, I would make another multi-platform app to be used by the Traffic Department to actually test people who are applying for DLs or renewing them.
Aaah, things I would do if I was younger...
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10 July 2013 18:09, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
@William - all am saying is these ideas look good on paper, but behavioural change has all to do with behaviour and not legislation
Okech , I think William is still on behavioral change only that he has gone further to suggest a process of conditioning. Methinks conditioning in such small doses will work better in the long run than a big bang changeover of rules and penalties. Does it surprise you that despite the dangers associated with certain vices people cant stop indulging? It is because logic or threats cannot overcome a long-term conditioning.
I like the idea about insurance getting dearer and dearer for the bad driver, while getting cheaper and cheaper for the good driver.
And how about a simple computer game, simulating a real local driving environment. The game rewards you depending on how well you drive. Make it popular via local media, give it away for free to kids and adults alike. After a while we will all be driving less like we on NFS or Grand Theft Auto <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_%28series%29>.
-- Ndungi Kyalo
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
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@Martin, in the voice of one Barney Stinson, Challenge accepted! :-) On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>wrote:
If only I knew Android/iOS development, I would make that game Kyalo suggests!
....... and what is *really* *stopping* you from learning Android or game development in any other platform???
I for one am certain that you are connected to the InterWebs right now ......
Martin
In addition, I would make a flash card like app with all the road signs in .ke
And finally, I would make another multi-platform app to be used by the Traffic Department to actually test people who are applying for DLs or renewing them.
Aaah, things I would do if I was younger...
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10 July 2013 18:09, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
@William - all am saying is these ideas look good on paper, but behavioural change has all to do with behaviour and not legislation
Okech , I think William is still on behavioral change only that he has gone further to suggest a process of conditioning. Methinks conditioning in such small doses will work better in the long run than a big bang changeover of rules and penalties. Does it surprise you that despite the dangers associated with certain vices people cant stop indulging? It is because logic or threats cannot overcome a long-term conditioning.
I like the idea about insurance getting dearer and dearer for the bad driver, while getting cheaper and cheaper for the good driver.
And how about a simple computer game, simulating a real local driving environment. The game rewards you depending on how well you drive. Make it popular via local media, give it away for free to kids and adults alike. After a while we will all be driving less like we on NFS or Grand Theft Auto <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_%28series%29>.
-- Ndungi Kyalo
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
Thank you Peter! And while at it, please add Python programming <http://www.python.org/>onto your bucket list <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bucket%20list> * __Fingers and toes crossed tightly!__ *. Martin. On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com> wrote:
@Martin, in the voice of one Barney Stinson, Challenge accepted! :-)
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Martin Akolo Chiteri < martin.chiteri@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Peter,
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu@gmail.com>wrote:
If only I knew Android/iOS development, I would make that game Kyalo suggests!
....... and what is *really* *stopping* you from learning Android or game development in any other platform???
I for one am certain that you are connected to the InterWebs right now ......
Martin
In addition, I would make a flash card like app with all the road signs in .ke
And finally, I would make another multi-platform app to be used by the Traffic Department to actually test people who are applying for DLs or renewing them.
Aaah, things I would do if I was younger...
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10 July 2013 18:09, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
@William - all am saying is these ideas look good on paper, but behavioural change has all to do with behaviour and not legislation
Okech , I think William is still on behavioral change only that he has gone further to suggest a process of conditioning. Methinks conditioning in such small doses will work better in the long run than a big bang changeover of rules and penalties. Does it surprise you that despite the dangers associated with certain vices people cant stop indulging? It is because logic or threats cannot overcome a long-term conditioning.
I like the idea about insurance getting dearer and dearer for the bad driver, while getting cheaper and cheaper for the good driver.
And how about a simple computer game, simulating a real local driving environment. The game rewards you depending on how well you drive. Make it popular via local media, give it away for free to kids and adults alike. After a while we will all be driving less like we on NFS or Grand Theft Auto <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_%28series%29> .
-- Ndungi Kyalo
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-- Regards, Peter Karunyu -------------------
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1. I think the amount of fine payable depends on your negotiation skills. It can even go down to Ksh. 50 (usually this depends on the time of month). 2. The only solution we need for these traffic offenses is instant corporal punishment (i.e. kuchapwa viboko hatharani). Every traffic cop should carry around a nyahunyo. For your case, your driver should have received 5 strokes of the cane at the scene of the crime. The only problem is that there are a few freaks out there that wouldn't mind being having their a$$ whipped by a female cop...:-) Timo.
Timothy, corporal punishment only works for children - and it is only so as to train and condition them into certain good habits and wean them out of the bad habits. For adults, this may not work. And it may actually be a pleasure for some, like you say -- Ndungi Kyalo neno.co.ke ~ Your word O Lord, lights my $PATH. On 11 July 2013 10:30, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:
1. I think the amount of fine payable depends on your negotiation skills. It can even go down to Ksh. 50 (usually this depends on the time of month).
2. The only solution we need for these traffic offenses is instant corporal punishment (i.e. kuchapwa viboko hatharani). Every traffic cop should carry around a nyahunyo. For your case, your driver should have received 5 strokes of the cane at the scene of the crime.
The only problem is that there are a few freaks out there that wouldn't mind being having their a$$ whipped by a female cop...:-)
Timo. _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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Even if we come with all the fancy apps, it'll eventually boil down to the willingness of the cop to use it. But we can make it better if we made the use of the app more attractive to an offender. That way the person will insist of getting fined through the app which is instantaneous. And the only way to do this is to lower the fines. Since that's the only way we can have the general population willing to use it. Then we can do some data mining on the collected information and based on this come up with a way to take tough disciplinary measures on people who have certain trends in the records. On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Timothy, corporal punishment only works for children - and it is only so as to train and condition them into certain good habits and wean them out of the bad habits. For adults, this may not work. And it may actually be a pleasure for some, like you say
-- Ndungi Kyalo neno.co.ke ~ Your word O Lord, lights my $PATH.
On 11 July 2013 10:30, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:
1. I think the amount of fine payable depends on your negotiation skills. It can even go down to Ksh. 50 (usually this depends on the time of month).
2. The only solution we need for these traffic offenses is instant corporal punishment (i.e. kuchapwa viboko hatharani). Every traffic cop should carry around a nyahunyo. For your case, your driver should have received 5 strokes of the cane at the scene of the crime.
The only problem is that there are a few freaks out there that wouldn't mind being having their a$$ whipped by a female cop...:-)
Timo. _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254736 729 450 Skype: solomonkariri
@Solomon has hit it right where it is *still wishing there is a 'like' button on gmail* ./Ok3ch On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 8:45 AM, solomon kariri <solomonkariri@gmail.com>wrote:
Even if we come with all the fancy apps, it'll eventually boil down to the willingness of the cop to use it. But we can make it better if we made the use of the app more attractive to an offender. That way the person will insist of getting fined through the app which is instantaneous. And the only way to do this is to lower the fines. Since that's the only way we can have the general population willing to use it. Then we can do some data mining on the collected information and based on this come up with a way to take tough disciplinary measures on people who have certain trends in the records.
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Timothy, corporal punishment only works for children - and it is only so as to train and condition them into certain good habits and wean them out of the bad habits. For adults, this may not work. And it may actually be a pleasure for some, like you say
-- Ndungi Kyalo neno.co.ke ~ Your word O Lord, lights my $PATH.
On 11 July 2013 10:30, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:
1. I think the amount of fine payable depends on your negotiation skills. It can even go down to Ksh. 50 (usually this depends on the time of month).
2. The only solution we need for these traffic offenses is instant corporal punishment (i.e. kuchapwa viboko hatharani). Every traffic cop should carry around a nyahunyo. For your case, your driver should have received 5 strokes of the cane at the scene of the crime.
The only problem is that there are a few freaks out there that wouldn't mind being having their a$$ whipped by a female cop...:-)
Timo. _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254736 729 450 Skype: solomonkariri _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
@Solomon has hit it right where it is
@Okech,
*still wishing there is a 'like' button on gmail*
We have Google +plus nowadays for that! ;-)
Martin.
./Ok3ch
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 8:45 AM, solomon kariri <solomonkariri@gmail.com>wrote:
Even if we come with all the fancy apps, it'll eventually boil down to the willingness of the cop to use it. But we can make it better if we made the use of the app more attractive to an offender. That way the person will insist of getting fined through the app which is instantaneous. And the only way to do this is to lower the fines. Since that's the only way we can have the general population willing to use it. Then we can do some data mining on the collected information and based on this come up with a way to take tough disciplinary measures on people who have certain trends in the records.
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Timothy, corporal punishment only works for children - and it is only so as to train and condition them into certain good habits and wean them out of the bad habits. For adults, this may not work. And it may actually be a pleasure for some, like you say
-- Ndungi Kyalo neno.co.ke ~ Your word O Lord, lights my $PATH.
On 11 July 2013 10:30, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:
1. I think the amount of fine payable depends on your negotiation skills. It can even go down to Ksh. 50 (usually this depends on the time of month).
2. The only solution we need for these traffic offenses is instant corporal punishment (i.e. kuchapwa viboko hatharani). Every traffic cop should carry around a nyahunyo. For your case, your driver should have received 5 strokes of the cane at the scene of the crime.
The only problem is that there are a few freaks out there that wouldn't mind being having their a$$ whipped by a female cop...:-)
Timo. _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Solomon Kariri,
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You can talk all you want. But no matter what you propose, it boils down to how much the cop is willing to take for a bribe vs how much is wasted going to court in terms of time, criminal record and court fines. What you are all doing here is building the top stories of a tall building suspended on a very weak and unstable base. We rank 4th world wide corruption wise. Increasing the fine amounts through a traffic act only improves the bargaining power of the cop. "Utanipatia elfu tatu ama unaka kwenda kortini utoe elfu kumi?" And then you think ah if I give the three K it'll save me time and money because even if I become patriotic and go to court, they\ll eventually embezzle the funds, then say funds have been embezzled, form a commission to investigate the case which runs on the same money. The commission comes up with a report that is totally non conclusive and then it becomes a double loss. That's the basics of the logic. On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10 July 2013 18:09, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
@William - all am saying is these ideas look good on paper, but behavioural change has all to do with behaviour and not legislation
Okech , I think William is still on behavioral change only that he has gone further to suggest a process of conditioning. Methinks conditioning in such small doses will work better in the long run than a big bang changeover of rules and penalties. Does it surprise you that despite the dangers associated with certain vices people cant stop indulging? It is because logic or threats cannot overcome a long-term conditioning.
I like the idea about insurance getting dearer and dearer for the bad driver, while getting cheaper and cheaper for the good driver.
And how about a simple computer game, simulating a real local driving environment. The game rewards you depending on how well you drive. Make it popular via local media, give it away for free to kids and adults alike. After a while we will all be driving less like we on NFS or Grand Theft Auto.
-- Ndungi Kyalo
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-- Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254736 729 450 Skype: solomonkariri
Solomon, we already established that we fell into a slimy hole as a country. We are now trying to climb out, albeit, without much needed input from those who *really* know how a human being's behavioural patterns can be harnessed for his own good. -- Ndungi Kyalo neno.co.ke ~ Your word O Lord, lights my $PATH. On 11 July 2013 10:33, solomon kariri <solomonkariri@gmail.com> wrote:
You can talk all you want. But no matter what you propose, it boils down to how much the cop is willing to take for a bribe vs how much is wasted going to court in terms of time, criminal record and court fines. What you are all doing here is building the top stories of a tall building suspended on a very weak and unstable base. We rank 4th world wide corruption wise. Increasing the fine amounts through a traffic act only improves the bargaining power of the cop. "Utanipatia elfu tatu ama unaka kwenda kortini utoe elfu kumi?" And then you think ah if I give the three K it'll save me time and money because even if I become patriotic and go to court, they\ll eventually embezzle the funds, then say funds have been embezzled, form a commission to investigate the case which runs on the same money. The commission comes up with a report that is totally non conclusive and then it becomes a double loss. That's the basics of the logic.
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10 July 2013 18:09, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
@William - all am saying is these ideas look good on paper, but behavioural change has all to do with behaviour and not legislation
Okech , I think William is still on behavioral change only that he has
gone
further to suggest a process of conditioning. Methinks conditioning in such small doses will work better in the long run than a big bang changeover of rules and penalties. Does it surprise you that despite the dangers associated with certain vices people cant stop indulging? It is because logic or threats cannot overcome a long-term conditioning.
I like the idea about insurance getting dearer and dearer for the bad driver, while getting cheaper and cheaper for the good driver.
And how about a simple computer game, simulating a real local driving environment. The game rewards you depending on how well you drive. Make it popular via local media, give it away for free to kids and adults alike. After a while we will all be driving less like we on NFS or Grand Theft Auto.
-- Ndungi Kyalo
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-- Solomon Kariri,
Software Developer, Cell: +254736 729 450 Skype: solomonkariri _______________________________________________ skunkworks mailing list skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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participants (7)
-
Martin Akolo Chiteri -
Ndungi Kyalo -
Okechukwu -
Peter Karunyu -
solomon kariri -
Timothy Mutugi -
William Muriithi