Preventing Land Ownership Fraud by "Crowd-Sourcing" information

Dear Listers, I am not sure if this has been discussed here or better still if it has been implemented somewhere but I will go ahead and talk abt it.... We have a constitution and land laws that are being flouted by corrupt officials entrusted with enforcing them for material gain. For instance if you do a search for a piece of registered land, and you get a search results duly signed and stamped by the registrar of lands at that office then the information there is in binding and should also BIND the government who is the final authority in land governance because the buyer commits his/her funds to a purchase based on the information given at the registry. We have very MANUAL registries where documents are stored in files in a library like setup and the core of those registries is a binder that holds the so called "green cards". One could liken the green card to the primary key in a DB. Due to the physical / manual methods used to change information on these paper documents and the fact that they have to be "physically" accessed, removed, edited and returned, they create a loop-hole for unscrupulous lands officials to change the content thus destroying the written history associated with a parcel of land and consequently depriving the real owners of their property / inheritance. A simple solution would be to digitize the registry .. but as you can imagine there would be a lot of resistance from the Lands officials because that completely takes away their source of corrupt funds. I know it will eventually be digitized BUT what can we do in the interim ... between now and the time that the registries will eventually be digitized ... ? Land does not move... its is people who do the moving... One can never fail to get the history of a piece of land from the surrounding neighbourhood and this is one of the "social" searches that one is advised to do when considering the purchase of a parcel somewhere. So why can't we tap into this free source of information as a way of counter checking the already tampered information which exists in local land registries I was thinking that using the technology available today we could create a free online database or use one of the existing social media sites to create an online "Land Search" resource where everyday ordinary Kenyans can check the "social" status and history of a parcel , correlate it with the information from the registry before making a decision to purchase.. The information from this DB or Social Media site will not be "legally" binding BUT it will raise red flags prevent the fraud considerably given that most land fraud cartels use deception and mis-information of "Government held information" to convince their victims. To populate it, I am thinking in the lines of "crowd-sourcing" this information and if possible tie it in on Google maps just like in www.ushahidi.com. This way , the database can show a piece of land as Red, Amber or Green depending its social history eg, - who initially owned it, - was it inherited properly, - was there a dispute, - are there wives or children who were dis-inherited who might come out of the wood-work after the purchase . Mapping it directly on google maps will alow the would be buyer to do a GPS search of sorts when he or she is "viewing" physically on the ground . This will also prevent the other form of fraud where the victim is shown a parcel which is not the one on the purported papers. There are other uses for such a database .. If YOU owns a piece of land somewhere, you can also flag it as RED to prevent fraudsters selling it with out your knowledge and fleecing an innocent victim out there. Look at it like putting a legal Caution of Caveat Emptor on a registered property etc etc This idea has its CONS .. Malicious relatives, mpango was kando husbands/wives, neighbours etc can stop you from selling or getting a bank loan from your genuine land by flagging it red or mis-informing the public about it. etc Now I am basically a Network / Security guy and I have never written a line of code so I can't tell you how this can be implemented "technically" otherwise it would be online as we speak .... But having seen the destruction peoples dreams and hard earned money in the demolition of structures in Syokimau and Eastleigh .. I can't just sympathize with the victims and stop there ... They were conned yet some were holding "genuine" papers from the government they trusted as the most trusted land ownership authority. I believe that there is something that can be done to prevent it and I am throwing this to the listers to build on and if possible .. IMPLEMENT it.. I am open to contribute wherever I can. PS: Since the framework for Ushahidi.com. already exists, maybe Ory and his team could assist .. karibu ...

This is a good idea, the map should also map lands mentioned in the Ndungu Report as most of those under demolition were mentioned in this report.

<this topic marked as OT> Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few year back; with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); to digitize and map the property of Nairobi.. Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed a strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from behind the wall..

Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? and certain members pulled out..? I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that have been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on specified by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho. I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be available in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it. ___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________ On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:
<this topic marked as OT>
Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few year back; with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); to digitize and map the property of Nairobi..
Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed a strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from behind the wall..
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one... On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? and certain members pulled out..?
I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that have been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on specified by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho.
I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be available in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it.
___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________
On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:
<this topic marked as OT>
Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few year back; with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); to digitize and map the property of Nairobi..
Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed a strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from behind the wall..
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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@ Timothy .. why should it be slowed down ? On 6 December 2011 09:51, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:
My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one...
On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? and certain members pulled out..?
I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that have been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on specified by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho.
I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be available in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it.
___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________
On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:
<this topic marked as OT>
Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few year back; with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); to digitize and map the property of Nairobi..
Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed a strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from behind the wall..
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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The truth remains the same you are trying to remove a piece of meat with a tooth pick in the molars of a lion's mouth. careful brethren but you are very right, I suggest the luring of one of the Aspiring presidential candidate to have it as a manifestos, the others will copy him amd that way it may buy its ways in slowly but not quickly. that is my opinion. On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com>wrote:
My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one...
On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? and certain members pulled out..?
I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that have been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on specified by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho.
I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be available in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it.
___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________
On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:
<this topic marked as OT>
Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few year back; with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); to digitize and map the property of Nairobi..
Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed a strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from behind the wall..
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- MICHAEL A. AKUNGA (+254) 0726 174 815 michaelakunga@gmail.com michaelakunga@yahoo.com http://michysoft.blogspot.com "I have a dream that one day nitapita katikati "

he he @ Timo. 'My frends, ngo a mbit srowry on this one. Hii mambo ya rands inaweza kuangusha serikari.....' On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mickey Mickey <michaelakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
The truth remains the same you are trying to remove a piece of meat with a tooth pick in the molars of a lion's mouth. careful brethren but you are very right, I suggest the luring of one of the Aspiring presidential candidate to have it as a manifestos, the others will copy him amd that way it may buy its ways in slowly but not quickly. that is my opinion.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com>wrote:
My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one...
On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? and certain members pulled out..?
I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that have been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on specified by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho.
I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be available in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it.
___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________
On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:
<this topic marked as OT>
Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few year back; with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); to digitize and map the property of Nairobi..
Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed a strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from behind the wall..
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- MICHAEL A. AKUNGA (+254) 0726 174 815 michaelakunga@gmail.com michaelakunga@yahoo.com http://michysoft.blogspot.com
"I have a dream that one day nitapita katikati "
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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@ Thomas, I love your idea. It will also probably work. We should create a webpage that launches a form you can enter what you own and this can build the database. Probably needs to be hosted abroad. Secured against DDOS and other forms of tampering. I can see why a common mwananchi would be willing to make this information public but not the huge landowners. would be useful.... On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:34 AM, m mugo <mugo2of3@gmail.com> wrote:
he he @ Timo.
'My frends, ngo a mbit srowry on this one. Hii mambo ya rands inaweza kuangusha serikari.....'
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mickey Mickey <michaelakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
The truth remains the same you are trying to remove a piece of meat with a tooth pick in the molars of a lion's mouth. careful brethren but you are very right, I suggest the luring of one of the Aspiring presidential candidate to have it as a manifestos, the others will copy him amd that way it may buy its ways in slowly but not quickly. that is my opinion.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com>wrote:
My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one...
On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? and certain members pulled out..?
I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that have been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on specified by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho.
I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be available in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it.
___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________
On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:
<this topic marked as OT>
Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few year back; with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); to digitize and map the property of Nairobi..
Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed a strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from behind the wall..
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- MICHAEL A. AKUNGA (+254) 0726 174 815 michaelakunga@gmail.com michaelakunga@yahoo.com http://michysoft.blogspot.com
"I have a dream that one day nitapita katikati "
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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just saw an advert on fb for http://www.kenyalandregistry.com/ On 12/6/11, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Thomas,
I love your idea. It will also probably work.
We should create a webpage that launches a form you can enter what you own and this can build the database. Probably needs to be hosted abroad. Secured against DDOS and other forms of tampering.
I can see why a common mwananchi would be willing to make this information public but not the huge landowners. would be useful.... On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:34 AM, m mugo <mugo2of3@gmail.com> wrote:
he he @ Timo.
'My frends, ngo a mbit srowry on this one. Hii mambo ya rands inaweza kuangusha serikari.....'
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mickey Mickey <michaelakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
The truth remains the same you are trying to remove a piece of meat with a tooth pick in the molars of a lion's mouth. careful brethren but you are very right, I suggest the luring of one of the Aspiring presidential candidate to have it as a manifestos, the others will copy him amd that way it may buy its ways in slowly but not quickly. that is my opinion.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com>wrote:
My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one...
On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? and certain members pulled out..?
I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that have been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on specified by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho.
I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be available in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it.
___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________
On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:
<this topic marked as OT>
Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few year back; with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); to digitize and map the property of Nairobi..
Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed a strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from behind the wall..
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- MICHAEL A. AKUNGA (+254) 0726 174 815 michaelakunga@gmail.com michaelakunga@yahoo.com http://michysoft.blogspot.com
"I have a dream that one day nitapita katikati "
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- Best Regards, James Mutuku Ndeti Agile Systems Limited +254722490994 www.agile.co.ke www.zetu.co.ke Has your organization implemented a customer relationship management (CRM)system? visit http://www.agile.co.ke/crm.php and find out how our CRM can help you achieve better customer satisfaction and sales

@Thomas Your initiative is a noble one, but my concern is that land is a very very very sensitive issue, at a national level and also at a personal level. It is not a coincidence that all the worst conflict in Kenya can be traced back to land issues. In some parts of this country, even your own relatives will "finish" you if they find out you have some land somewhere. If you talk to someone who works at the land registry, you will realise the level of secrecy that is maintained with respect to land matters. For example, there are 99 year leases that continue to expire and these expired parcels are dished out to well connected people. I can assure you that the people guarding this information will never never never disclose it to anyone. As for http://www.kenyalandregistry.com/ - There is no way, NEVER EVER, that I will disclose what land I own and where. Even if I have an eighth of an acre..NEVER !!!! Putting such info on a public website is over exposing oneself. Timo. On 12/6/11, James Mutuku <listmutuku@gmail.com> wrote:
just saw an advert on fb for http://www.kenyalandregistry.com/
On 12/6/11, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Thomas,
I love your idea. It will also probably work.
We should create a webpage that launches a form you can enter what you own and this can build the database. Probably needs to be hosted abroad. Secured against DDOS and other forms of tampering.
I can see why a common mwananchi would be willing to make this information public but not the huge landowners. would be useful.... On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:34 AM, m mugo <mugo2of3@gmail.com> wrote:
he he @ Timo.
'My frends, ngo a mbit srowry on this one. Hii mambo ya rands inaweza kuangusha serikari.....'
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mickey Mickey <michaelakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
The truth remains the same you are trying to remove a piece of meat with a tooth pick in the molars of a lion's mouth. careful brethren but you are very right, I suggest the luring of one of the Aspiring presidential candidate to have it as a manifestos, the others will copy him amd that way it may buy its ways in slowly but not quickly. that is my opinion.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com>wrote:
My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one...
On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? and certain members pulled out..?
I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that have been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on specified by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho.
I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be available in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it.
___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________
On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote:
> <this topic marked as OT> > > Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few year back; > with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); > to digitize and map the property of Nairobi.. > > Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed a > strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from > behind the wall.. > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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-- MICHAEL A. AKUNGA (+254) 0726 174 815 michaelakunga@gmail.com michaelakunga@yahoo.com http://michysoft.blogspot.com
"I have a dream that one day nitapita katikati "
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best Regards, James Mutuku Ndeti Agile Systems Limited +254722490994 www.agile.co.ke www.zetu.co.ke
Has your organization implemented a customer relationship management (CRM)system? visit http://www.agile.co.ke/crm.php and find out how our CRM can help you achieve better customer satisfaction and sales _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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What if the mapping was done for land that has been sold, how many times, "the title deed" no, leases etc and not the ownership? On 12/6/11, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:
@Thomas
Your initiative is a noble one, but my concern is that land is a very very very sensitive issue, at a national level and also at a personal level.
It is not a coincidence that all the worst conflict in Kenya can be traced back to land issues.
In some parts of this country, even your own relatives will "finish" you if they find out you have some land somewhere.
If you talk to someone who works at the land registry, you will realise the level of secrecy that is maintained with respect to land matters.
For example, there are 99 year leases that continue to expire and these expired parcels are dished out to well connected people. I can assure you that the people guarding this information will never never never disclose it to anyone.
As for http://www.kenyalandregistry.com/ - There is no way, NEVER EVER, that I will disclose what land I own and where. Even if I have an eighth of an acre..NEVER !!!!
Putting such info on a public website is over exposing oneself.
Timo.
On 12/6/11, James Mutuku <listmutuku@gmail.com> wrote:
just saw an advert on fb for http://www.kenyalandregistry.com/
On 12/6/11, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Thomas,
I love your idea. It will also probably work.
We should create a webpage that launches a form you can enter what you own and this can build the database. Probably needs to be hosted abroad. Secured against DDOS and other forms of tampering.
I can see why a common mwananchi would be willing to make this information public but not the huge landowners. would be useful.... On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:34 AM, m mugo <mugo2of3@gmail.com> wrote:
he he @ Timo.
'My frends, ngo a mbit srowry on this one. Hii mambo ya rands inaweza kuangusha serikari.....'
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mickey Mickey <michaelakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
The truth remains the same you are trying to remove a piece of meat with a tooth pick in the molars of a lion's mouth. careful brethren but you are very right, I suggest the luring of one of the Aspiring presidential candidate to have it as a manifestos, the others will copy him amd that way it may buy its ways in slowly but not quickly. that is my opinion.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com>wrote:
My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one...
On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? > and > certain members pulled out..? > > I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that have > been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on specified > by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho. > > I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be available > in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I > suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it. > > > > > ___________________ > Sifa U. Mawiyoo > Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. > www.about.me/sifa > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, > decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any > information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any > means, > whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, > without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and > confidential. > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > > On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote: > >> <this topic marked as OT> >> >> Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few >> year back; >> with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into Kenya); >> to digitize and map the property of Nairobi.. >> >> Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed >> a >> strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape from >> behind the wall.. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- MICHAEL A. AKUNGA (+254) 0726 174 815 michaelakunga@gmail.com michaelakunga@yahoo.com http://michysoft.blogspot.com
"I have a dream that one day nitapita katikati "
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best Regards, James Mutuku Ndeti Agile Systems Limited +254722490994 www.agile.co.ke www.zetu.co.ke
Has your organization implemented a customer relationship management (CRM)system? visit http://www.agile.co.ke/crm.php and find out how our CRM can help you achieve better customer satisfaction and sales _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best Regards, James Mutuku Ndeti Agile Systems Limited +254722490994 www.agile.co.ke www.zetu.co.ke Has your organization implemented a customer relationship management (CRM)system? visit http://www.agile.co.ke/crm.php and find out how our CRM can help you achieve better customer satisfaction and sales

Something has got to give. it doesn't make sense for for such things to be happening and we keep quite about it. I'm with you on the part that a certain level of privacy should be maintained. thats all well and good. we shall replace your name with a alpha numeric code and that issue will be sorted out. The Issue is those in office are the only ones in the know. and 99 year leases can not be expiring and privately dished out to individuals> there is due process that must take place. Land reverts back to state or what ever else should happen that we as a nation have agreed too not shady deals on the side. WTF. At the heart of it in the interest of the public. Government land should be identifiable. < state Enterprise land. Road reserve land, Environmentally protected land reserves, ETC That is public information nd that information should be clearly available and demarcated. Labeled. Accessible. At an individual level public information is the demarcations of land parcels. Plot xyz starts here and ends there. that is the neighbors land parcel, starts here and ends there. That is not sensitive information. I want to know what are officially recognized boundaries of adjacent plots. I as a buyer of property a should just follow a due process find out the history of the land from the Ministry and previous owner whom I am buying it from. and with in 3 - 6 months if subdivisions are made to land and sold these changes need to be reflected in the national registry that we can see only a part of. not the whole. When such a system of open access and updated and time valid information is available. Not only are we happier and comforted about it. but consider enhanced collection of land rates, by city councils, Tax revenue collection, roads, water, public amenity. You will have built a wholistic foundation private, city, regional, national can draw from the information that they need to enhance service delivery. ___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________ On 6 December 2011 18:35, James Mutuku <listmutuku@gmail.com> wrote:
What if the mapping was done for land that has been sold, how many times, "the title deed" no, leases etc and not the ownership?
On 12/6/11, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:
@Thomas
Your initiative is a noble one, but my concern is that land is a very very very sensitive issue, at a national level and also at a personal level.
It is not a coincidence that all the worst conflict in Kenya can be traced back to land issues.
In some parts of this country, even your own relatives will "finish" you if they find out you have some land somewhere.
If you talk to someone who works at the land registry, you will realise the level of secrecy that is maintained with respect to land matters.
For example, there are 99 year leases that continue to expire and these expired parcels are dished out to well connected people. I can assure you that the people guarding this information will never never never disclose it to anyone.
As for http://www.kenyalandregistry.com/ - There is no way, NEVER EVER, that I will disclose what land I own and where. Even if I have an eighth of an acre..NEVER !!!!
Putting such info on a public website is over exposing oneself.
Timo.
On 12/6/11, James Mutuku <listmutuku@gmail.com> wrote:
just saw an advert on fb for http://www.kenyalandregistry.com/
On 12/6/11, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Thomas,
I love your idea. It will also probably work.
We should create a webpage that launches a form you can enter what you own and this can build the database. Probably needs to be hosted abroad. Secured against DDOS and other forms of tampering.
I can see why a common mwananchi would be willing to make this information public but not the huge landowners. would be useful.... On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:34 AM, m mugo <mugo2of3@gmail.com> wrote:
he he @ Timo.
'My frends, ngo a mbit srowry on this one. Hii mambo ya rands inaweza kuangusha serikari.....'
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mickey Mickey <michaelakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
The truth remains the same you are trying to remove a piece of meat with a tooth pick in the molars of a lion's mouth. careful brethren but you are very right, I suggest the luring of one of the Aspiring presidential candidate to have it as a manifestos, the others will copy him amd that way it may buy its ways in slowly but not quickly. that is my opinion.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com>wrote:
> My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one... > > On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Ndungu, did the project only stop because of a lack of funding? > > and > > certain members pulled out..? > > > > I've also been wondering if there isn't a way to flag parcels, that > have > > been "grabb'ed" / should not be occupied due to infringement on > specified > > by-laws or environmental policy. Anywho. > > > > I think We'are heading to a space where this information will be > available > > in part or wholly available via the open data portal. If in part. I > > suspect some very interesting mash ups will come out of it. > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ > > Sifa U. Mawiyoo > > Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. > > www.about.me/sifa > > > > >
> > No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, > > decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any > > information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any > > means, > > whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, > > without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and > > confidential. > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5 December 2011 12:23, ndungu stephen <ndungustephen@gmail.com
> wrote: > > > >> <this topic marked as OT> > >> > >> Anywho; PS Ndemo at one time tried to recruit us to do it a few > >> year > back; > >> with the help of Google (that time Google was trying to come into > Kenya); > >> to digitize and map the property of Nairobi.. > >> > >> Unfortunately and as mentioned - resistance and bureaucracy formed > >> a > >> strong wall - that is so Opaque and Dense even light cannot escape > from > >> behind the wall.. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Skunkworks mailing list > >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >> ------------ > >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >> ------------ > >> > >> Skunkworks Rules > >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > >> ------------ > >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- MICHAEL A. AKUNGA (+254) 0726 174 815 michaelakunga@gmail.com michaelakunga@yahoo.com http://michysoft.blogspot.com
"I have a dream that one day nitapita katikati "
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best Regards, James Mutuku Ndeti Agile Systems Limited +254722490994 www.agile.co.ke www.zetu.co.ke
Has your organization implemented a customer relationship management (CRM)system? visit http://www.agile.co.ke/crm.php and find out how our CRM can help you achieve better customer satisfaction and sales _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Best Regards, James Mutuku Ndeti Agile Systems Limited +254722490994 www.agile.co.ke www.zetu.co.ke
Has your organization implemented a customer relationship management (CRM)system? visit http://www.agile.co.ke/crm.php and find out how our CRM can help you achieve better customer satisfaction and sales _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke

Did anybody else catch the hotlines to check the status of your land ownership http://mcaf.ee/ci1hy. We are probably asking for the information that the Surveyors tap in-to when we call them to be taken on step further. The Internet, or some semi automated process to access the information. while still mainintining some level of privacy. the Land Crisis we are in is only an issue because we have made it so and we don't know any better, so we keep it so. In other news. http://mcaf.ee/ahj9d Land grabbing inTZ will be a thing of the past. (So we hope.) 18th Nov Article from IPP Media. On Wednesday, 7 December 2011, Sifa U. Mawiyoo wrote:
Something has got to give. it doesn't make sense for for such things to be happening and we keep quite about it. I'm with you on the part that a certain level of privacy should be maintained. thats all well and good. we shall replace your name with a alpha numeric code and that issue will be sorted out. The Issue is those in office are the only ones in the know. and 99 year leases can not be expiring and privately dished out to individuals> there is due process that must take place. Land reverts back to state or what ever else should happen that we as a nation have agreed too not shady deals on the side. WTF.
At the heart of it in the interest of the public. Government land should be identifiable. < state Enterprise land. Road reserve land, Environmentally protected land reserves, ETC That is public information nd that information should be clearly available and demarcated. Labeled. Accessible. At an individual level public information is the demarcations of land parcels. Plot xyz starts here and ends there. that is the neighbors land parcel, starts here and ends there. That is not sensitive information. I want to know what are officially recognized boundaries of adjacent plots.
I as a buyer of property a should just follow a due process find out the history of the land from the Ministry and previous owner whom I am buying it from. and with in 3 - 6 months if subdivisions are made to land and sold these changes need to be reflected in the national registry that we can see only a part of. not the whole. When such a system of open access and updated and time valid information is available. Not only are we happier and comforted about it. but consider enhanced collection of land rates, by city councils, Tax revenue collection, roads, water, public amenity. You will have built a wholistic foundation private, city, regional, national can draw from the information that they need to enhance service delivery.
___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo
Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________
On 6 December 2011 18:35, James Mutuku <listmutuku@gmail.com> wrote:
What if the mapping was done for land that has been sold, how many times, "the title deed" no, leases etc and not the ownership?
On 12/6/11, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com> wrote:
@Thomas
Your initiative is a noble one, but my concern is that land is a very very very sensitive issue, at a national level and also at a personal level.
It is not a coincidence that all the worst conflict in Kenya can be traced back to land issues.
In some parts of this country, even your own relatives will "finish" you if they find out you have some land somewhere.
If you talk to someone who works at the land registry, you will realise the level of secrecy that is maintained with respect to land matters.
For example, there are 99 year leases that continue to expire and these expired parcels are dished out to well connected people. I can assure you that the people guarding this information will never never never disclose it to anyone.
As for http://www.kenyalandregistry.com/ - There is no way, NEVER EVER, that I will disclose what land I own and where. Even if I have an eighth of an acre..NEVER !!!!
Putting such info on a public website is over exposing oneself.
Timo.
On 12/6/11, James Mutuku <listmutuku@gmail.com> wrote:
just saw an advert on fb for http://www.kenyalandregistry.com/
On 12/6/11, John Doe <fivepings@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Thomas,
I love your idea. It will also probably work.
We should create a webpage that launches a form you can enter what you own and this can build the database. Probably needs to be hosted abroad. Secured against DDOS and other forms of tampering.
I can see why a common mwananchi would be willing to make this information public but not the huge landowners. would be useful.... On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 11:34 AM, m mugo <mugo2of3@gmail.com> wrote:
he he @ Timo.
'My frends, ngo a mbit srowry on this one. Hii mambo ya rands inaweza kuangusha serikari.....'
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Mickey Mickey <michaelakunga@gmail.com>wrote:
The truth remains the same you are trying to remove a piece of meat with a tooth pick in the molars of a lion's mouth. careful brethren but you are very right, I suggest the luring of one of the Aspiring presidential candidate to have it as a manifestos, the others will copy him amd that way it may buy its ways in slowly but not quickly. that is my opinion.
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Timothy Mutugi <timothymutugi@gmail.com>wrote:
> My friends, you have to go a bit slowly on this one... > > On 12/6/11, Sifa U. Mawiyoo <sifa.elfuelfu.inc@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Ndungu, did the pro
-- ___________________ Sifa U. Mawiyoo +27 78 747 0240 +254 715 060 600 Geographer, Mapper, GIS user, Spatial thinker. www.about.me/sifa 15196704-2007 International Office (RW Wilcocks South, Victoria Street, Stellenbosch 7600.) (Private Bag X1, 7602 Matieland) South Africa ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No part of this email may be reproduced, transmitted, down-loaded, decompiled, reverse engineered, or stored in or introduced into any information storage and retrieval system, in any form or by any means, whether electronic or mechanical, now known or hereinafter invented, without the permission of SU Mawiyoo. It is therefore private and confidential. __________________________________________________________

This has been done before in similar settings. Take a look at the Bhoomi project [1] in India [2]. The basic premise is quite simple -- convert paper land ownership records into digital format; provides proof of ownership and allows easy searching of records. [1] (http://bhoomi.karnataka.gov.in/) [2] h ttp://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTINFORMATIONANDCOMMUNICATIONANDTECHNOLOGIES/EXTEGOVERNMENT/0,,contentMDK:20484902~menuPK:1767268~pagePK:210058~piPK:210062~theSitePK:702586,00.html<http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTINFORMATIONANDCOMMUNICATIONANDTECHNOLOGIES/EXTEGOVERNMENT/0,,contentMDK:20484902~menuPK:1767268~pagePK:210058~piPK:210062~theSitePK:702586,00.html> On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Thomas Kibui <thomas.kibui@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Listers,
I am not sure if this has been discussed here or better still if it has been implemented somewhere but I will go ahead and talk abt it....
We have a constitution and land laws that are being flouted by corrupt officials entrusted with enforcing them for material gain. For instance if you do a search for a piece of registered land, and you get a search results duly signed and stamped by the registrar of lands at that office then the information there is in binding and should also BIND the government who is the final authority in land governance because the buyer commits his/her funds to a purchase based on the information given at the registry.
We have very MANUAL registries where documents are stored in files in a library like setup and the core of those registries is a binder that holds the so called "green cards". One could liken the green card to the primary key in a DB. Due to the physical / manual methods used to change information on these paper documents and the fact that they have to be "physically" accessed, removed, edited and returned, they create a loop-hole for unscrupulous lands officials to change the content thus destroying the written history associated with a parcel of land and consequently depriving the real owners of their property / inheritance.
A simple solution would be to digitize the registry .. but as you can imagine there would be a lot of resistance from the Lands officials because that completely takes away their source of corrupt funds. I know it will eventually be digitized BUT what can we do in the interim ... between now and the time that the registries will eventually be digitized ... ?
Land does not move... its is people who do the moving... One can never fail to get the history of a piece of land from the surrounding neighbourhood and this is one of the "social" searches that one is advised to do when considering the purchase of a parcel somewhere. So why can't we tap into this free source of information as a way of counter checking the already tampered information which exists in local land registries
I was thinking that using the technology available today we could create a free online database or use one of the existing social media sites to create an online "Land Search" resource where everyday ordinary Kenyans can check the "social" status and history of a parcel , correlate it with the information from the registry before making a decision to purchase.. The information from this DB or Social Media site will not be "legally" binding BUT it will raise red flags prevent the fraud considerably given that most land fraud cartels use deception and mis-information of "Government held information" to convince their victims.
To populate it, I am thinking in the lines of "crowd-sourcing" this information and if possible tie it in on Google maps just like in www.ushahidi.com. This way , the database can show a piece of land as Red, Amber or Green depending its social history eg,
- who initially owned it, - was it inherited properly, - was there a dispute, - are there wives or children who were dis-inherited who might come out of the wood-work after the purchase .
Mapping it directly on google maps will alow the would be buyer to do a GPS search of sorts when he or she is "viewing" physically on the ground . This will also prevent the other form of fraud where the victim is shown a parcel which is not the one on the purported papers. There are other uses for such a database .. If YOU owns a piece of land somewhere, you can also flag it as RED to prevent fraudsters selling it with out your knowledge and fleecing an innocent victim out there. Look at it like putting a legal Caution of Caveat Emptor on a registered property etc etc
This idea has its CONS .. Malicious relatives, mpango was kando husbands/wives, neighbours etc can stop you from selling or getting a bank loan from your genuine land by flagging it red or mis-informing the public about it. etc
Now I am basically a Network / Security guy and I have never written a line of code so I can't tell you how this can be implemented "technically" otherwise it would be online as we speak .... But having seen the destruction peoples dreams and hard earned money in the demolition of structures in Syokimau and Eastleigh .. I can't just sympathize with the victims and stop there ... They were conned yet some were holding "genuine" papers from the government they trusted as the most trusted land ownership authority.
I believe that there is something that can be done to prevent it and I am throwing this to the listers to build on and if possible .. IMPLEMENT it.. I am open to contribute wherever I can.
PS: Since the framework for Ushahidi.com. already exists, maybe Ory and his team could assist ..
karibu ...
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the bhoomi.karnataka.gov.in/ project looks intresting. and it seems privacy is upheld On 12/7/11, rsohan@gmail.com <rsohan@gmail.com> wrote:
This has been done before in similar settings. Take a look at the Bhoomi project [1] in India [2]. The basic premise is quite simple -- convert paper land ownership records into digital format; provides proof of ownership and allows easy searching of records.
[1] (http://bhoomi.karnataka.gov.in/) [2] h ttp://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTINFORMATIONANDCOMMUNICATIONANDTECHNOLOGIES/EXTEGOVERNMENT/0,,contentMDK:20484902~menuPK:1767268~pagePK:210058~piPK:210062~theSitePK:702586,00.html<http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTINFORMATIONANDCOMMUNICATIONANDTECHNOLOGIES/EXTEGOVERNMENT/0,,contentMDK:20484902~menuPK:1767268~pagePK:210058~piPK:210062~theSitePK:702586,00.html>
On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Thomas Kibui <thomas.kibui@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Listers,
I am not sure if this has been discussed here or better still if it has been implemented somewhere but I will go ahead and talk abt it....
We have a constitution and land laws that are being flouted by corrupt officials entrusted with enforcing them for material gain. For instance if you do a search for a piece of registered land, and you get a search results duly signed and stamped by the registrar of lands at that office then the information there is in binding and should also BIND the government who is the final authority in land governance because the buyer commits his/her funds to a purchase based on the information given at the registry.
We have very MANUAL registries where documents are stored in files in a library like setup and the core of those registries is a binder that holds the so called "green cards". One could liken the green card to the primary key in a DB. Due to the physical / manual methods used to change information on these paper documents and the fact that they have to be "physically" accessed, removed, edited and returned, they create a loop-hole for unscrupulous lands officials to change the content thus destroying the written history associated with a parcel of land and consequently depriving the real owners of their property / inheritance.
A simple solution would be to digitize the registry .. but as you can imagine there would be a lot of resistance from the Lands officials because that completely takes away their source of corrupt funds. I know it will eventually be digitized BUT what can we do in the interim ... between now and the time that the registries will eventually be digitized ... ?
Land does not move... its is people who do the moving... One can never fail to get the history of a piece of land from the surrounding neighbourhood and this is one of the "social" searches that one is advised to do when considering the purchase of a parcel somewhere. So why can't we tap into this free source of information as a way of counter checking the already tampered information which exists in local land registries
I was thinking that using the technology available today we could create a free online database or use one of the existing social media sites to create an online "Land Search" resource where everyday ordinary Kenyans can check the "social" status and history of a parcel , correlate it with the information from the registry before making a decision to purchase.. The information from this DB or Social Media site will not be "legally" binding BUT it will raise red flags prevent the fraud considerably given that most land fraud cartels use deception and mis-information of "Government held information" to convince their victims.
To populate it, I am thinking in the lines of "crowd-sourcing" this information and if possible tie it in on Google maps just like in www.ushahidi.com. This way , the database can show a piece of land as Red, Amber or Green depending its social history eg,
- who initially owned it, - was it inherited properly, - was there a dispute, - are there wives or children who were dis-inherited who might come out of the wood-work after the purchase .
Mapping it directly on google maps will alow the would be buyer to do a GPS search of sorts when he or she is "viewing" physically on the ground . This will also prevent the other form of fraud where the victim is shown a parcel which is not the one on the purported papers. There are other uses for such a database .. If YOU owns a piece of land somewhere, you can also flag it as RED to prevent fraudsters selling it with out your knowledge and fleecing an innocent victim out there. Look at it like putting a legal Caution of Caveat Emptor on a registered property etc etc
This idea has its CONS .. Malicious relatives, mpango was kando husbands/wives, neighbours etc can stop you from selling or getting a bank loan from your genuine land by flagging it red or mis-informing the public about it. etc
Now I am basically a Network / Security guy and I have never written a line of code so I can't tell you how this can be implemented "technically" otherwise it would be online as we speak .... But having seen the destruction peoples dreams and hard earned money in the demolition of structures in Syokimau and Eastleigh .. I can't just sympathize with the victims and stop there ... They were conned yet some were holding "genuine" papers from the government they trusted as the most trusted land ownership authority.
I believe that there is something that can be done to prevent it and I am throwing this to the listers to build on and if possible .. IMPLEMENT it.. I am open to contribute wherever I can.
PS: Since the framework for Ushahidi.com. already exists, maybe Ory and his team could assist ..
karibu ...
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participants (10)
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Dennis Kioko
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James Mutuku
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John Doe
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m mugo
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Mickey Mickey
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ndungu stephen
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rsohan@gmail.com
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Sifa U. Mawiyoo
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Thomas Kibui
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Timothy Mutugi