Hello, ave been watching and reading material about the purpose of money and I am very curious to know how the monetary system works seeing as the banks(including the CBK and all other central banks) to me seem like pyramid schemes. They never really offer actual value just big no.s and afancy lingo on paper. Anyone who can guide me to a book or link that can explain how the cbk works (or any other similar system?) -- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy
Get a hold of The Ascent Of Money by Niall Ferguson. Absolutely brilliant look at money from barter trade to the global crisis On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, ave been watching and reading material about the purpose of money and I am very curious to know how the monetary system works seeing as the banks(including the CBK and all other central banks) to me seem like pyramid schemes. They never really offer actual value just big no.s and afancy lingo on paper. Anyone who can guide me to a book or link that can explain how the cbk works (or any other similar system?)
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
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check out Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist Addendum! Got some interesting angles on the banking system! Regards, Amarjit Singh Labhuram. On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Get a hold of The Ascent Of Money by Niall Ferguson. Absolutely brilliant look at money from barter trade to the global crisis
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, ave been watching and reading material about the purpose of money and I am very curious to know how the monetary system works seeing as the banks(including the CBK and all other central banks) to me seem like pyramid schemes. They never really offer actual value just big no.s and afancy lingo on paper. Anyone who can guide me to a book or link that can explain how the cbk works (or any other similar system?)
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197# ...I wonder if our CBK works similar to the Federal Reserve system..... ./bernard On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Amarjit Labhuram < amarjit.labhuram@gmail.com> wrote:
check out Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist Addendum! Got some interesting angles on the banking system!
Regards,
Amarjit Singh Labhuram.
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Get a hold of The Ascent Of Money by Niall Ferguson. Absolutely brilliant look at money from barter trade to the global crisis
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, ave been watching and reading material about the purpose of money and I am very curious to know how the monetary system works seeing as the banks(including the CBK and all other central banks) to me seem like pyramid schemes. They never really offer actual value just big no.s and afancy lingo on paper. Anyone who can guide me to a book or link that can explain how the cbk works (or any other similar system?)
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
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@Ben..that is the one! Warm regards, Amarjit Singh Labhuram. On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197#
...I wonder if our CBK works similar to the Federal Reserve system.....
./bernard
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Amarjit Labhuram < amarjit.labhuram@gmail.com> wrote:
check out Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist Addendum! Got some interesting angles on the banking system!
Regards,
Amarjit Singh Labhuram.
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Rad! <conradakunga@gmail.com> wrote:
Get a hold of The Ascent Of Money by Niall Ferguson. Absolutely brilliant look at money from barter trade to the global crisis
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, ave been watching and reading material about the purpose of money and I am very curious to know how the monetary system works seeing as the banks(including the CBK and all other central banks) to me seem like pyramid schemes. They never really offer actual value just big no.s and afancy lingo on paper. Anyone who can guide me to a book or link that can explain how the cbk works (or any other similar system?)
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
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Read Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations.... On banks, they do offer value, a lot of value, they act as a bridge. Just need to be regulated. What banks do is make sourcing capital and storing the same easier... -- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
A wise Kenyan writer said "...money is the side-effect of specialization.." In that, in a specialized economy (where everyone is supposed to be very good at producing one thing but needs everything else from without) we need a 2-step process in every transaction. If you build houses but need bread you ask for money for your skill and give out the money for your bread. Long story short, your wealth is in your skill and not in your money ... your wealth is in what you make while money is just a mode of transfer of the said wealth to other 'wealths' ie the bread-maker's wealth is his bread(s). Banks' wealth(s) are in the ability to ease this transfer and to leverage it. Their wealth is in this 'knowledge' and 'access'. If you look around with this concept of wealth vs money many of your questions might be answered. Hope u r answered by my 2 cents (no pun intended :) Davis
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
A wise Kenyan writer said "...money is the side-effect of specialization.."
In that, in a specialized economy (where everyone is supposed to be very good at producing one thing but needs everything else from without) we need a 2-step process in every transaction. If you build houses but need bread you ask for money for your skill and give out the money for your bread. Long story short, your wealth is in your skill and not in your money ... your wealth is in what you make while money is just a mode of transfer of the said wealth to other 'wealths' ie the bread-maker's wealth is his bread(s).
Banks' wealth(s) are in the ability to ease this transfer and to leverage it. Their wealth is in this 'knowledge' and 'access'. If you look around with this concept of wealth vs money many of your questions might be answered.
Hope u r answered by my 2 cents (no pun intended :)
Davis
True, but this does not factor in need & choice. Need is the main reason we have disparities in income for similar skill sets. e.g. CCNA. 10 or so years ago, a job guarantee, today? Not quite... What changed? Demand for the same went down as supply increased.
-- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
While at this, would someone in the know be kind enough to explain inflation ? The last time someone tried to explain it to me it went well until he lost me at the point where `sh 100 today will be sh 50 next year`. Where does my sh 50 disappear to ? On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
A wise Kenyan writer said "...money is the side-effect of specialization.."
In that, in a specialized economy (where everyone is supposed to be very good at producing one thing but needs everything else from without) we need a 2-step process in every transaction. If you build houses but need bread you ask for money for your skill and give out the money for your bread. Long story short, your wealth is in your skill and not in your money ... your wealth is in what you make while money is just a mode of transfer of the said wealth to other 'wealths' ie the bread-maker's wealth is his bread(s).
Banks' wealth(s) are in the ability to ease this transfer and to leverage it. Their wealth is in this 'knowledge' and 'access'. If you look around with this concept of wealth vs money many of your questions might be answered.
Hope u r answered by my 2 cents (no pun intended :)
Davis
True, but this does not factor in need & choice. Need is the main reason we have disparities in income for similar skill sets. e.g. CCNA. 10 or so years ago, a job guarantee, today? Not quite... What changed? Demand for the same went down as supply increased.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
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@ ndungi, the same way your cow today will be a goat tomorrow( the genius was in barter trade, the corruption was in the paper) :) #! /usr/bin/hope -w #$file: angel.mine script use strict; #Keep Going # become s good child my $pid = fork(); print $pid,"\n"; while(1) { sleep(never); On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
While at this, would someone in the know be kind enough to explain inflation ? The last time someone tried to explain it to me it went well until he lost me at the point where `sh 100 today will be sh 50 next year`. Where does my sh 50 disappear to ?
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
A wise Kenyan writer said "...money is the side-effect of specialization.."
In that, in a specialized economy (where everyone is supposed to be very good at producing one thing but needs everything else from without) we need a 2-step process in every transaction. If you build houses but need bread you ask for money for your skill and give out the money for your bread. Long story short, your wealth is in your skill and not in your money ... your wealth is in what you make while money is just a mode of transfer of the said wealth to other 'wealths' ie the bread-maker's wealth is his bread(s).
Banks' wealth(s) are in the ability to ease this transfer and to leverage it. Their wealth is in this 'knowledge' and 'access'. If you look around with this concept of wealth vs money many of your questions might be answered.
Hope u r answered by my 2 cents (no pun intended :)
Davis
True, but this does not factor in need & choice. Need is the main reason we have disparities in income for similar skill sets. e.g. CCNA. 10 or so years ago, a job guarantee, today? Not quite... What changed? Demand for the same went down as supply increased.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
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As I understood inflation, it is an increase in the money supply(through the banks via loans) without corresponding increase in the supply and demand of goods and services(growth of economy) thus diluting the existing circulation of money and thus devaluation of the currency . . . . On 5/24/10, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
While at this, would someone in the know be kind enough to explain inflation ? The last time someone tried to explain it to me it went well until he lost me at the point where `sh 100 today will be sh 50 next year`. Where does my sh 50 disappear to ?
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
A wise Kenyan writer said "...money is the side-effect of specialization.."
In that, in a specialized economy (where everyone is supposed to be very good at producing one thing but needs everything else from without) we need a 2-step process in every transaction. If you build houses but need bread you ask for money for your skill and give out the money for your bread. Long story short, your wealth is in your skill and not in your money ... your wealth is in what you make while money is just a mode of transfer of the said wealth to other 'wealths' ie the bread-maker's wealth is his bread(s).
Banks' wealth(s) are in the ability to ease this transfer and to leverage it. Their wealth is in this 'knowledge' and 'access'. If you look around with this concept of wealth vs money many of your questions might be answered.
Hope u r answered by my 2 cents (no pun intended :)
Davis
True, but this does not factor in need & choice. Need is the main reason we have disparities in income for similar skill sets. e.g. CCNA. 10 or so years ago, a job guarantee, today? Not quite... What changed? Demand for the same went down as supply increased.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
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-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy
On 5/24/10, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
While at this, would someone in the know be kind enough to explain inflation ? The last time someone tried to explain it to me it went well until he lost me at the point where `sh 100 today will be sh 50 next year`. Where does my sh 50 disappear to ?
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
A wise Kenyan writer said "...money is the side-effect of specialization.."
In that, in a specialized economy (where everyone is supposed to be very good at producing one thing but needs everything else from without) we need a 2-step process in every transaction. If you build houses but need bread you ask for money for your skill and give out the money for your bread. Long story short, your wealth is in your skill and not in your money ... your wealth is in what you make while money is just a mode of transfer of the said wealth to other 'wealths' ie the bread-maker's wealth is his bread(s).
Banks' wealth(s) are in the ability to ease this transfer and to leverage it. Their wealth is in this 'knowledge' and 'access'. If you look around with this concept of wealth vs money many of your questions might be answered.
Hope u r answered by my 2 cents (no pun intended :)
Davis
True, but this does not factor in need & choice. Need is the main reason we have disparities in income for similar skill sets. e.g. CCNA. 10 or so years ago, a job guarantee, today? Not quite... What changed? Demand for the same went down as supply increased.
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
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-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy
@Ndungi Remember that money is just a form of transfer of wealth... from my earlier post. An economy has to have a certain level of money in circulation for us to conveniently convert our wealths. Since our wealths grow (eg a doctor becomes better with experience hence his total 'medical wealth' grows from year to year) (also, the number of doctors is increasing) then we constantly need to keep raising the levels of money - again to ensure convenient wealth conversions. However, the value (wealth) locked in one particular item in the economy, eg a loaf of bread remains constant. Thus, when you raise the money in circulation and try to price the loaf of bread, its price shifts. If the increase in money circulated is higher than the loaves of bread increased, then the price might rise naturally (inflation) whilst the reverse might also be true (deflation). If we had 1 trillion shillings in circulation in 2009 and the economy produces 1 million loaves of bread then the price is 30/= for bread If we have 2 trillion shillings in circulation in 2011 and the economy then produces 1.5 million loaves of bread then the price will be ~38/= (remember there are other products being manufactured or services delivered and they are probably also growing with new ones entering hence affecting demand for bread etc) Davis
Controlled inflation is good for the economy, as it spurs investment... On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
@Ndungi
Remember that money is just a form of transfer of wealth... from my earlier post. An economy has to have a certain level of money in circulation for us to conveniently convert our wealths. Since our wealths grow (eg a doctor becomes better with experience hence his total 'medical wealth' grows from year to year) (also, the number of doctors is increasing) then we constantly need to keep raising the levels of money - again to ensure convenient wealth conversions. However, the value (wealth) locked in one particular item in the economy, eg a loaf of bread remains constant. Thus, when you raise the money in circulation and try to price the loaf of bread, its price shifts. If the increase in money circulated is higher than the loaves of bread increased, then the price might rise naturally (inflation) whilst the reverse might also be true (deflation).
If we had 1 trillion shillings in circulation in 2009 and the economy produces 1 million loaves of bread then the price is 30/= for bread If we have 2 trillion shillings in circulation in 2011 and the economy then produces 1.5 million loaves of bread then the price will be ~38/= (remember there are other products being manufactured or services delivered and they are probably also growing with new ones entering hence affecting demand for bread etc)
Davis
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How is inflation good? It devalues the currency and in the current arrangement (if am correct) a time will come when Kshs 100. Will be needed to buy a sweet . . I honestly don't see how this is good . As I understand , money is not treated as value but as a tool of debt and means of managing percieved wealth. The problem is that the money is exchangeable for true property / wealth . . .and if what ave read about how money is created, then they(the banks) create it out of thin air and offer it against your real property(house car etc ) Am jus sayin On 5/24/10, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
Controlled inflation is good for the economy, as it spurs investment...
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
@Ndungi
Remember that money is just a form of transfer of wealth... from my earlier post. An economy has to have a certain level of money in circulation for us to conveniently convert our wealths. Since our wealths grow (eg a doctor becomes better with experience hence his total 'medical wealth' grows from year to year) (also, the number of doctors is increasing) then we constantly need to keep raising the levels of money - again to ensure convenient wealth conversions. However, the value (wealth) locked in one particular item in the economy, eg a loaf of bread remains constant. Thus, when you raise the money in circulation and try to price the loaf of bread, its price shifts. If the increase in money circulated is higher than the loaves of bread increased, then the price might rise naturally (inflation) whilst the reverse might also be true (deflation).
If we had 1 trillion shillings in circulation in 2009 and the economy produces 1 million loaves of bread then the price is 30/= for bread If we have 2 trillion shillings in circulation in 2011 and the economy then produces 1.5 million loaves of bread then the price will be ~38/= (remember there are other products being manufactured or services delivered and they are probably also growing with new ones entering hence affecting demand for bread etc)
Davis
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-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy
@Mark Again .... following my earlier posts, we usually have two choices when wealth grows (which generally happens naturally in an economy where people work everyday); increase the money supply or and have prices rising thus devaluing the currency or allowing the value of currency to appreciate with the increasing wealth. Without inflation it would mean that it becomes harder and harder to get a shilling. This is because the value of a shilling over time would become too great. This immediately wipes out a very important aspect of money; the ease of conversion to other wealth - liquidity. Cash is meant to be liquid to ease transactions etc. An example is the agony most Kenyans find themselves in whenever they have 1,000 shilling notes - for day to day use eg paying fare or buying a soda, the note is more of a bother than help. Imagine if the case was to be the same down to a 50 bob note (as in it takes as much trouble to get change for 50/= as it currently does for 1,000/=) This is the reason inflation is always allowed. Davis.
@Phares, Please do expound. Am curious to know how it spurs investment too .. @Davis, Remember that money is just a form of transfer of wealth... from my earlier
post. An economy has to have a certain level of money in circulation for us to conveniently convert our wealths. Since our wealths grow (eg a doctor becomes better with experience hence his total 'medical wealth' grows from year to year) (also, the number of doctors is increasing) then we constantly need to keep raising the levels of money - again to ensure convenient wealth conversions.
True dat.
However, the value (wealth) locked in one particular item in the economy,
eg a loaf of bread remains constant. Thus, when you raise the money in circulation and try to price the loaf of bread, its price shifts. If the increase in money circulated is higher than the loaves of bread increased, then the price might rise naturally (inflation) whilst the reverse might also be true (deflation).
Did you notice something ? Inspite of the doctor's amassed `medical wealth` he can only afford, roughly, the same loaves of bread he could afford 10 years ago when he wasnt as wealthy as he apparently is, thanks to inflation. (In fact, its a slightly worse in Kenya and the 3rd world, lakini hayo na siku nyingine.) Inflation is then making a mockery of the doctors' sustained hard work : It is simply assuring the doctor that he will never be able to afford (an arbitrary) 100,000 loaves of bread, irregardless of how much he earns and saves. Because the harder he works, the more the money will be pumped into circulation, and at the same rate the price of bread will rise. Joe's analogy of a cow today `becoming a goat` tomorrow then becomes true. Isnt that what happens to savings ? The exception though, is the person who happens to make an extremely large amount of money in a very short time. With this one, inflation doesnt catch up. I wonder by what means is it possible to make such a large amount of money in a short time ? My 2 cents ( will be 1.25 tomorrow ;-).
@Ndungi You are very right. Thank you for understanding everything in my earlier posts. Now about the doctor who only affords the same as he could afford ten years ago. Remember, the doctor's wealth grows at a certain rate,.. the combined wealth of Kenyans also grows at a certain rate (real wealth including jua kali, businesses, private hospitals etc that rarely get into official figures) and the money supply grows at a certain rate. Let us assume the doctor's 'medical wealth' grows at a rate equal to the total economy's wealth growth (number of people creating wealth is growing and their individual wealth is also growing). When money supply tries to cover this growth in total wealth, the prices rise in a way that the doctor finds himself affording the same bread he could 10 years ago. The increased money supply ensures that the demand for the bread (number of people willing and able to buy it) has gone up. Thus, for the doctor to afford more bread, his total wealth growth has to be greater than the economy's natural growth. He has to either work harder or work smarter to ensure his wealth surges ahead of the general economy. Your issue with banks is based on the credit system. Is it possible to get money, purchase some wealth-creating resources (eg land, workers, some trucks), create some wealth, convert it back into some money to pay off the money borrowed and reserve the other wealth as yours? Yes it is, that is a loan. Banks get this money easily when we deposit it in our accounts... the rest as they say is history Davis On Mon, 2010-05-24 at 14:15 +0000, Ndungi Kyalo wrote:
@Phares,
Please do expound. Am curious to know how it spurs investment too ..
@Davis,
Remember that money is just a form of transfer of wealth... from my earlier post. An economy has to have a certain level of money in circulation for us to conveniently convert our wealths. Since our wealths grow (eg a doctor becomes better with experience hence his total 'medical wealth' grows from year to year) (also, the number of doctors is increasing) then we constantly need to keep raising the levels of money - again to ensure convenient wealth conversions.
True dat.
However, the value (wealth) locked in one particular item in the economy, eg a loaf of bread remains constant. Thus, when you raise the money in circulation and try to price the loaf of bread, its price shifts. If the increase in money circulated is higher than the loaves of bread increased, then the price might rise naturally (inflation) whilst the reverse might also be true (deflation).
Did you notice something ? Inspite of the doctor's amassed `medical wealth` he can only afford, roughly, the same loaves of bread he could afford 10 years ago when he wasnt as wealthy as he apparently is, thanks to inflation. (In fact, its a slightly worse in Kenya and the 3rd world, lakini hayo na siku nyingine.) Inflation is then making a mockery of the doctors' sustained hard work : It is simply assuring the doctor that he will never be able to afford (an arbitrary) 100,000 loaves of bread, irregardless of how much he earns and saves. Because the harder he works, the more the money will be pumped into circulation, and at the same rate the price of bread will rise. Joe's analogy of a cow today `becoming a goat` tomorrow then becomes true. Isnt that what happens to savings ?
The exception though, is the person who happens to make an extremely large amount of money in a very short time. With this one, inflation doesnt catch up. I wonder by what means is it possible to make such a large amount of money in a short time ?
My 2 cents ( will be 1.25 tomorrow ;-).
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-- Davis Waithaka Maina Business Development Manager Systems Kenya Solutions 4th Fl. KCB Building Enterprise Rd., Nairobi www.systemskenya.com +254 721 305 374
On interesting thing I find with the money system today in its basic form takes after cowry shell system. The traders collected shell at ocean beach [read creation of money] carry the shells inland and meet tribes that have never seen shells[rare commodity]. shells were batered for real value goods and services e.g foodstuff, cattle, tools, medicine,....etc. and worst still the cheapest human resource evere;slaves. The trader would use this commodities for real commerce at the coast and collect more shells at the beach to take to the mainland. So picture the tribal chief in the mainland facing a drought having sold the grain for cowrie shells and no where to use the same. You can't feed the people on shells... So its a similar system, where abstract object represent value of real it goods and services and goes for any other tender. The original barter trade must have been the fairest but not the most efficient. just my 2cents On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 5:48 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
@Ndungi
You are very right. Thank you for understanding everything in my earlier posts. Now about the doctor who only affords the same as he could afford ten years ago. Remember, the doctor's wealth grows at a certain rate,.. the combined wealth of Kenyans also grows at a certain rate (real wealth including jua kali, businesses, private hospitals etc that rarely get into official figures) and the money supply grows at a certain rate.
Let us assume the doctor's 'medical wealth' grows at a rate equal to the total economy's wealth growth (number of people creating wealth is growing and their individual wealth is also growing). When money supply tries to cover this growth in total wealth, the prices rise in a way that the doctor finds himself affording the same bread he could 10 years ago. The increased money supply ensures that the demand for the bread (number of people willing and able to buy it) has gone up.
Thus, for the doctor to afford more bread, his total wealth growth has to be greater than the economy's natural growth. He has to either work harder or work smarter to ensure his wealth surges ahead of the general economy.
Your issue with banks is based on the credit system. Is it possible to get money, purchase some wealth-creating resources (eg land, workers, some trucks), create some wealth, convert it back into some money to pay off the money borrowed and reserve the other wealth as yours? Yes it is, that is a loan. Banks get this money easily when we deposit it in our accounts... the rest as they say is history
Davis
On Mon, 2010-05-24 at 14:15 +0000, Ndungi Kyalo wrote:
@Phares,
Please do expound. Am curious to know how it spurs investment too ..
@Davis,
Remember that money is just a form of transfer of wealth... from my earlier post. An economy has to have a certain level of money in circulation for us to conveniently convert our wealths. Since our wealths grow (eg a doctor becomes better with experience hence his total 'medical wealth' grows from year to year) (also, the number of doctors is increasing) then we constantly need to keep raising the levels of money - again to ensure convenient wealth conversions.
True dat.
However, the value (wealth) locked in one particular item in the economy, eg a loaf of bread remains constant. Thus, when you raise the money in circulation and try to price the loaf of bread, its price shifts. If the increase in money circulated is higher than the loaves of bread increased, then the price might rise naturally (inflation) whilst the reverse might also be true (deflation).
Did you notice something ? Inspite of the doctor's amassed `medical wealth` he can only afford, roughly, the same loaves of bread he could afford 10 years ago when he wasnt as wealthy as he apparently is, thanks to inflation. (In fact, its a slightly worse in Kenya and the 3rd world, lakini hayo na siku nyingine.) Inflation is then making a mockery of the doctors' sustained hard work : It is simply assuring the doctor that he will never be able to afford (an arbitrary) 100,000 loaves of bread, irregardless of how much he earns and saves. Because the harder he works, the more the money will be pumped into circulation, and at the same rate the price of bread will rise. Joe's analogy of a cow today `becoming a goat` tomorrow then becomes true. Isnt that what happens to savings ?
The exception though, is the person who happens to make an extremely large amount of money in a very short time. With this one, inflation doesnt catch up. I wonder by what means is it possible to make such a large amount of money in a short time ?
My 2 cents ( will be 1.25 tomorrow ;-).
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-- Davis Waithaka Maina Business Development Manager Systems Kenya Solutions 4th Fl. KCB Building Enterprise Rd., Nairobiwww.systemskenya.com +254 721 305 374
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@ davis I now understand why inflation is necessary . Thanks for the insight . . . So at this rate, with increase in population/consumers, 'new' money has to be created . . .all am wondering is if it is sustainable in the long run. It appears we are trying to allow everyone access to money to purchase / access resources . . .so the currency will always have to be reviewed in terms of value to acquire a balance for accurate representation of wealth in the money . . . Stan's analogy holds a lot of truth . .we have come to assign value to money instead of what it represents . . . On 5/24/10, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com> wrote:
@Ndungi
Remember that money is just a form of transfer of wealth... from my earlier post. An economy has to have a certain level of money in circulation for us to conveniently convert our wealths. Since our wealths grow (eg a doctor becomes better with experience hence his total 'medical wealth' grows from year to year) (also, the number of doctors is increasing) then we constantly need to keep raising the levels of money - again to ensure convenient wealth conversions. However, the value (wealth) locked in one particular item in the economy, eg a loaf of bread remains constant. Thus, when you raise the money in circulation and try to price the loaf of bread, its price shifts. If the increase in money circulated is higher than the loaves of bread increased, then the price might rise naturally (inflation) whilst the reverse might also be true (deflation).
If we had 1 trillion shillings in circulation in 2009 and the economy produces 1 million loaves of bread then the price is 30/= for bread If we have 2 trillion shillings in circulation in 2011 and the economy then produces 1.5 million loaves of bread then the price will be ~38/= (remember there are other products being manufactured or services delivered and they are probably also growing with new ones entering hence affecting demand for bread etc)
Davis
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy
@Mark I was glad to help. I would however like to clarify Stan's analogy to today's financial systems; the cowrie shells' best analog is gold bars, rather than currency. Currency in its true form eg shilling is simply a representation of some wealth. It should ideally cost nothing to make (eg print cash or mint coin). This makes plastic money the most efficient form of currency today. Gold, however, has a long and expensive process to be realized. It is universally accepted as rare and valuable. It can be used to 'really show' how wealthy a person or a country is (ie for them to acquire 1 ton of pure gold) and is thus declared 'hard'. As money, however, gold can be quite useless because it is hard to tinker with its value (eg how many milligrams of gold dust would buy a piece of roast maize? How would the maize vendor measure these milligrams? etc) Davis
@ Ndungi & @ Mark The opposite of inflation - deflation - is actually a worse ... Google "Japan's lost decade". Suppose I need to buy a house, yet I know in a year it will cost 10% less. I'll logically wait a year to buy the house. Now suppose everybody thinks the same way - rationally or due to herd mentality ... it doesn't really matter. Demand for housing will fall, leading to even further drops in prices ... and a vicious cycle of lower prices and demand. And fewer construction jobs and higher unemployment - an economic contraction. On the other hand, if inflation is stable (say, at 10%), I'll know it doesn't pay to wait till next year to purchase goods. If everybody thinks similarly, rationally, then housing jobs will remain. In fact, investors will continue pumping money into the housing (and other) industries. That's why banks in Europe and US, in the thick of the financial crisis, printed tons of (worthless) money which they pumped into the world economy (they call it quantitative easing), to stave off deflation. At the time, inflation was practically zero and there was real concern that deflation would kick in. So, yes, inflation can spur investment. @ Davis To take your analogy further: Today's currencies are backed by gold - only the gold vanished into thin air in 1982 when Nixon moved the US out of the gold standard. All the world's currencies are backed - directly or indirectly - by the belief that the US Fed Reserve can redeem the value printed on your currency with some gold. Only the US Fed no longer has any gold - it simply creates value out of thin air. The amazing thing is that world over, everybody believes the USD is worth something - including during the US-created financial crisis when the US printed trillions of USD as part of their quantitative easing. Even our own CBK creates value out of thin air when it prints new currency. Unfortunately the CBK is on a tighter leash than the US Fed since few people have "faith" in it. Isaac. On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com>wrote:
@Mark
I was glad to help. I would however like to clarify Stan's analogy to today's financial systems; the cowrie shells' best analog is gold bars, rather than currency. Currency in its true form eg shilling is simply a representation of some wealth. It should ideally cost nothing to make (eg print cash or mint coin). This makes plastic money the most efficient form of currency today.
Gold, however, has a long and expensive process to be realized. It is universally accepted as rare and valuable. It can be used to 'really show' how wealthy a person or a country is (ie for them to acquire 1 ton of pure gold) and is thus declared 'hard'.
As money, however, gold can be quite useless because it is hard to tinker with its value (eg how many milligrams of gold dust would buy a piece of roast maize? How would the maize vendor measure these milligrams? etc)
Davis
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I found this dummy's guide useful: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/opinion/24grant.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1 On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Isaac Ochieng <iochieng@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Ndungi & @ Mark
The opposite of inflation - deflation - is actually a worse ... Google "Japan's lost decade".
Suppose I need to buy a house, yet I know in a year it will cost 10% less. I'll logically wait a year to buy the house. Now suppose everybody thinks the same way - rationally or due to herd mentality ... it doesn't really matter. Demand for housing will fall, leading to even further drops in prices ... and a vicious cycle of lower prices and demand. And fewer construction jobs and higher unemployment - an economic contraction.
On the other hand, if inflation is stable (say, at 10%), I'll know it doesn't pay to wait till next year to purchase goods. If everybody thinks similarly, rationally, then housing jobs will remain. In fact, investors will continue pumping money into the housing (and other) industries.
That's why banks in Europe and US, in the thick of the financial crisis, printed tons of (worthless) money which they pumped into the world economy (they call it quantitative easing), to stave off deflation. At the time, inflation was practically zero and there was real concern that deflation would kick in.
So, yes, inflation can spur investment.
@ Davis
To take your analogy further: Today's currencies are backed by gold - only the gold vanished into thin air in 1982 when Nixon moved the US out of the gold standard. All the world's currencies are backed - directly or indirectly - by the belief that the US Fed Reserve can redeem the value printed on your currency with some gold. Only the US Fed no longer has any gold - it simply creates value out of thin air. The amazing thing is that world over, everybody believes the USD is worth something - including during the US-created financial crisis when the US printed trillions of USD as part of their quantitative easing.
Even our own CBK creates value out of thin air when it prints new currency. Unfortunately the CBK is on a tighter leash than the US Fed since few people have "faith" in it.
Isaac.
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com
wrote:
@Mark
I was glad to help. I would however like to clarify Stan's analogy to today's financial systems; the cowrie shells' best analog is gold bars, rather than currency. Currency in its true form eg shilling is simply a representation of some wealth. It should ideally cost nothing to make (eg print cash or mint coin). This makes plastic money the most efficient form of currency today.
Gold, however, has a long and expensive process to be realized. It is universally accepted as rare and valuable. It can be used to 'really show' how wealthy a person or a country is (ie for them to acquire 1 ton of pure gold) and is thus declared 'hard'.
As money, however, gold can be quite useless because it is hard to tinker with its value (eg how many milligrams of gold dust would buy a piece of roast maize? How would the maize vendor measure these milligrams? etc)
Davis
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Thanks guys al look for the books @ amarjit ave watched both and they are part of the reason I asked . . . Have looked for critics against the film but all I can find are the ones defending religion and some lame ones defending 9/11. Nothing about the banking and money. . . . On 5/24/10, Davis Waithaka <daviswaithaka@gmail.com> wrote:
A wise Kenyan writer said "...money is the side-effect of specialization.."
In that, in a specialized economy (where everyone is supposed to be very good at producing one thing but needs everything else from without) we need a 2-step process in every transaction. If you build houses but need bread you ask for money for your skill and give out the money for your bread. Long story short, your wealth is in your skill and not in your money ... your wealth is in what you make while money is just a mode of transfer of the said wealth to other 'wealths' ie the bread-maker's wealth is his bread(s).
Banks' wealth(s) are in the ability to ease this transfer and to leverage it. Their wealth is in this 'knowledge' and 'access'. If you look around with this concept of wealth vs money many of your questions might be answered.
Hope u r answered by my 2 cents (no pun intended :)
Davis
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, ave been watching and reading material about the purpose of money and I am very curious to know how the monetary system works seeing as the banks(including the CBK and all other central banks) to me seem like pyramid schemes. They never really offer actual value just big no.s and afancy lingo on paper. Anyone who can guide me to a book or link that can explain how the cbk works (or any other similar system?)
Also watch Money as Debt: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_as_Debt>. Joseph.
If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it... -- With Regards, Phares Kariuki | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds fairer doesnt it ? Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on toes. On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it...
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
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I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help... ./bernard On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds fairer doesnt it ?
Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on toes.
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it...
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
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@ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds fairer doesnt it ?
Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on toes.
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it...
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
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-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy
@mark, I can FTP it to you...or something.... ./bernard On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds fairer doesnt it ?
Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on toes.
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it...
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
I love this discussion to be honest I knew nothing to this effect ... I think I will pull all my money from the Unit trusts and maybe buy land since they promised me 10M in 15 years which will probably be only 10K by then who knows .... @Bernard how big is the documentary ?? On 25 May 2010 12:20, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
@mark, I can FTP it to you...or something....
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds fairer doesnt it ?
Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on toes.
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it...
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
How can i get the money masters dvd? and where are the other links? Martin S. Njuguna Digital Vision Limited c:+254 751 440 543 c:+254 721 440 543 t:+254 20 21 33 865 e:martin@digitalvision.co.ke <e%3Amartin@digitalvision.co.ke> w: http://www.digitalvision.co.ke Skype: digitalv.ke On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
I love this discussion to be honest I knew nothing to this effect ... I think I will pull all my money from the Unit trusts and maybe buy land since they promised me 10M in 15 years which will probably be only 10K by then who knows .... @Bernard how big is the documentary ??
On 25 May 2010 12:20, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
@mark, I can FTP it to you...or something....
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds fairer doesnt it ?
Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on toes.
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it...
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
2 CDs, 700 Mb each On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
I love this discussion to be honest I knew nothing to this effect ... I think I will pull all my money from the Unit trusts and maybe buy land since they promised me 10M in 15 years which will probably be only 10K by then who knows .... @Bernard how big is the documentary ??
On 25 May 2010 12:20, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
@mark, I can FTP it to you...or something....
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds fairer doesnt it ?
Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on toes.
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it...
-- With Regards,
Phares Kariuki
| T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares |
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@ Bernard Whats the ftp link I could download .... On 25 May 2010 19:28, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
2 CDs, 700 Mb each
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
I love this discussion to be honest I knew nothing to this effect ... I think I will pull all my money from the Unit trusts and maybe buy land since they promised me 10M in 15 years which will probably be only 10K by then who knows .... @Bernard how big is the documentary ??
On 25 May 2010 12:20, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
@mark, I can FTP it to you...or something....
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>wrote:
Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds fairer doesnt it ?
Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on toes.
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
> If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy > would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as > much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into > something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite > resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time > to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be > facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value > so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it... > > > > > -- > With Regards, > > Phares Kariuki > > | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | > Skype: kariukiphares | > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
Gimme ur FTP site/location and credentials... ./bernard On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Bernard Whats the ftp link I could download ....
On 25 May 2010 19:28, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
2 CDs, 700 Mb each
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
I love this discussion to be honest I knew nothing to this effect ... I think I will pull all my money from the Unit trusts and maybe buy land since they promised me 10M in 15 years which will probably be only 10K by then who knows .... @Bernard how big is the documentary ??
On 25 May 2010 12:20, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
@mark, I can FTP it to you...or something....
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com>wrote:
> > Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The > money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is > more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox > (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing > an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds > fairer doesnt it ? > > Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we > havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One > thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on > toes. > > > > > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote: > >> If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy >> would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to do as >> much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into >> something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite >> resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue with time >> to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be >> facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose value >> so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it... >> >> >> >> >> -- >> With Regards, >> >> Phares Kariuki >> >> | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | >> Skype: kariukiphares | >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet >> >> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
Cool Alright al call you tomorrow . . . On 5/25/10, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
Gimme ur FTP site/location and credentials...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Bernard Whats the ftp link I could download ....
On 25 May 2010 19:28, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
2 CDs, 700 Mb each
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
I love this discussion to be honest I knew nothing to this effect ... I think I will pull all my money from the Unit trusts and maybe buy land since they promised me 10M in 15 years which will probably be only 10K by then who knows .... @Bernard how big is the documentary ??
On 25 May 2010 12:20, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
@mark, I can FTP it to you...or something....
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
> I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help... > > ./bernard > > > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo > <ndungi@gmail.com>wrote: > >> >> Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The >> money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me >> thinks it is >> more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an >> ox >> (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be >> ploughing >> an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. >> Sounds >> fairer doesnt it ? >> >> Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we >> havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by >> surprise. One >> thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps >> everyone on >> toes. >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki >> <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy >>> would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to >>> do as >>> much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into >>> something that will probably have more need then, basically a >>> finite >>> resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue >>> with time >>> to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be >>> facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can >>> lose value >>> so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With Regards, >>> >>> Phares Kariuki >>> >>> | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | >>> Skype: kariukiphares | >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet >>> >>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet >> >> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy
Quite informative. I know see why one can live on only trading the cash ($,# & Ksh.) other than working for it and keep her/his head afloat! #! /usr/bin/hope -w #$file: angel.mine script use strict; #Keep Going # become s good child my $pid = fork(); print $pid,"\n"; while(1) { sleep(never); On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
Cool Alright al call you tomorrow . . .
On 5/25/10, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
Gimme ur FTP site/location and credentials...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
@ Bernard Whats the ftp link I could download ....
On 25 May 2010 19:28, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
2 CDs, 700 Mb each
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
I love this discussion to be honest I knew nothing to this effect ... I think I will pull all my money from the Unit trusts and maybe buy land since they promised me 10M in 15 years which will probably be only 10K by then who knows .... @Bernard how big is the documentary ??
On 25 May 2010 12:20, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
@mark, I can FTP it to you...or something....
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
> @ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al > look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful > > > On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru > <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: > >> I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help... >> >> ./bernard >> >> >> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo >> <ndungi@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> >>> Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The >>> money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me >>> thinks it is >>> more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an >>> ox >>> (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be >>> ploughing >>> an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. >>> Sounds >>> fairer doesnt it ? >>> >>> Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we >>> havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by >>> surprise. One >>> thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps >>> everyone on >>> toes. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki >>> <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy >>>> would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to >>>> do as >>>> much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into >>>> something that will probably have more need then, basically a >>>> finite >>>> resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue >>>> with time >>>> to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be >>>> facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can >>>> lose value >>>> so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With Regards, >>>> >>>> Phares Kariuki >>>> >>>> | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | >>>> Skype: kariukiphares | >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Skunkworks mailing list >>>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet >>>> >>>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... >>>> ------------ >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet >>> >>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... >>> ------------ >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet >> >> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... >> ------------ >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > > -- > Regards, > > Mark Mwangi > > http://mwangy.blogspot.com > > Skype : mark.mwangy > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f...
------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
@ bernard are you in nairobi? I can come to your office with blank cds or a dvd you burn for me . . . On 5/25/10, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
2 CDs, 700 Mb each
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Watson Kambo <wkwats@gmail.com> wrote:
I love this discussion to be honest I knew nothing to this effect ... I think I will pull all my money from the Unit trusts and maybe buy land since they promised me 10M in 15 years which will probably be only 10K by then who knows .... @Bernard how big is the documentary ??
On 25 May 2010 12:20, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com> wrote:
@mark, I can FTP it to you...or something....
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com> wrote:
@ bernard, would love to watch it. . . how can I get it? @wayodi al look for it. @isaac. . .the link was very helpful
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Bernard Mwagiru <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote:
I have a documentary "The Money Masters" that could be of help...
./bernard
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Ndungi Kyalo <ndungi@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks guys for the clarification on inflation and deflation. The money (paper/mulla/coins) system isnt so evil after all; but me thinks it is more open to abuse than say : I do a website for you you give me an ox (`nzau ya mulau`). as you plough profits from your website, I be ploughing an acre of cassava and cowpeas from one season right on to the next. Sounds fairer doesnt it ?
Well, either the money/paper system is more open to abuse or we havent understood it well enough that some things catch us by surprise. One thing is clear though (from Isaac), the money/paper system keeps everyone on toes.
On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 3:47 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>wrote:
> If there were no inflation, the most probable retirement strategy > would be simple savings as I know my 1000 KES today will be able to > do as > much in 2050. However, knowing it can't, I'm forced to move it into > something that will probably have more need then, basically a finite > resource e.g. land or something that will generate enough revenue > with time > to sustain me e.g. a business. Essentially, money is meant to be > facilitating trade, not preventing it... It's best if money can lose > value > so that people are spurred to trade with it, not hoard it... > > > > > -- > With Regards, > > Phares Kariuki > > | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | > Skype: kariukiphares | > > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... > ------------ > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards,
Mark Mwangi
Skype : mark.mwangy
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Watson wanjohi kambo
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
-- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy
participants (13)
-
Amarjit Labhuram -
Bernard Mwagiru -
Davis Waithaka -
Isaac Ochieng -
joe mwirigi -
Joseph Wayodi -
Mark Mwangi -
Martin Njuguna -
Ndungi Kyalo -
Phares Kariuki -
Rad! -
Stan Ngure -
Watson Kambo