Content Management Systems Vs. Frameworks
*NB: This is not a post about which CMS is better than the other!* * * *Been a user and developer of several Content Management systems namely Drupal and Joomla and at least one framework, I tend to find out that CMS are great top a certain point. While tehy are easy to configure and present several modules, I tend to find them very rigid. * **From observation, I have also seen this when other developers are doing something using a CMS e.g Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal. They tend to present a challenge when one requires functionality that is not present via any addon module or not fully implemented in one. On the other hand, while frameworks e.g. Zend, Codeigniter or Django may require a bit more of traditional coding, I find them easier to use as they present a lot of freedom and are easy to use. They tend to provide a base where you can bvuilt your own module, or better yet import modules from others, and easily tweak them to what you would like. Any one else who has varied experience between the two and which one , and why would they prefer it? -- with Regards: The Hacker whose people troubled Paypal http://www.cio.co.ke/view-all-main-stories/1999-the-hacker-whose-qpeopleq-tr...
I think a lot is determined by the way one is brought up in software development and their personality. Some CMSes may be easy to learn and deploy. Some frameworks may have a steep learning curve. I have personally experienced it where I was put together with a mainly Joomla born-and-bred team where for each feature asked for by the client, the answers were like "look for a plugin to do that, look for a module to do that, look for a component to do that etc". Suggesting writing code based on CI elicited blank stares :-) However, Joomla has it place and so does writing code off a framework. Sometimes, even frameworks do not make sense so a simple script will do. So in conclusion, I think you should examine it on a case by case scenario. On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
*NB: This is not a post about which CMS is better than the other!* * * *Been a user and developer of several Content Management systems namely Drupal and Joomla and at least one framework, I tend to find out that CMS are great top a certain point. While tehy are easy to configure and present several modules, I tend to find them very rigid. *
**From observation, I have also seen this when other developers are doing something using a CMS e.g Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal. They tend to present a challenge when one requires functionality that is not present via any addon module or not fully implemented in one.
On the other hand, while frameworks e.g. Zend, Codeigniter or Django may require a bit more of traditional coding, I find them easier to use as they present a lot of freedom and are easy to use. They tend to provide a base where you can bvuilt your own module, or better yet import modules from others, and easily tweak them to what you would like.
Any one else who has varied experience between the two and which one , and why would they prefer it? -- with Regards:
The Hacker whose people troubled Paypal
http://www.cio.co.ke/view-all-main-stories/1999-the-hacker-whose-qpeopleq-tr...
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Of course most frameworks have a steep learning curve. But given a scenario where you are solving growing business logic, would it be bettr to use modules or to built/import your own modules and scripts on a framework. Plus doesnt the fact that you can easily import scripts into a framework give it a plus given that you would have to rewrite the script into a module for the purpose of a CMS?
Peter I agree with you. Each has its place, there are some situations where it does not make sense to write code when installing a module is sufficient, and there are times when you need to write code. So you can't easily say you prefer one over the other unless you are referring to a particular project. Regards, Joshua Twinamasiko G. Pixel Magic Ltd. t: +256 312 274 869 m: +256 774 143 720 +256 701 143 720 www.pixelmagic.co.ug www.joshtwin.com From: Peter Karunyu Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 10:47 To: Skunkworks Mailing List Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Content Management Systems Vs. Frameworks I think a lot is determined by the way one is brought up in software development and their personality. Some CMSes may be easy to learn and deploy. Some frameworks may have a steep learning curve. I have personally experienced it where I was put together with a mainly Joomla born-and-bred team where for each feature asked for by the client, the answers were like "look for a plugin to do that, look for a module to do that, look for a component to do that etc". Suggesting writing code based on CI elicited blank stares :-) However, Joomla has it place and so does writing code off a framework. Sometimes, even frameworks do not make sense so a simple script will do. So in conclusion, I think you should examine it on a case by case scenario. On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 8:53 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: NB: This is not a post about which CMS is better than the other! Been a user and developer of several Content Management systems namely Drupal and Joomla and at least one framework, I tend to find out that CMS are great top a certain point. While tehy are easy to configure and present several modules, I tend to find them very rigid. From observation, I have also seen this when other developers are doing something using a CMS e.g Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal. They tend to present a challenge when one requires functionality that is not present via any addon module or not fully implemented in one. On the other hand, while frameworks e.g. Zend, Codeigniter or Django may require a bit more of traditional coding, I find them easier to use as they present a lot of freedom and are easy to use. They tend to provide a base where you can bvuilt your own module, or better yet import modules from others, and easily tweak them to what you would like. Any one else who has varied experience between the two and which one , and why would they prefer it? -- with Regards: The Hacker whose people troubled Paypal http://www.cio.co.ke/view-all-main-stories/1999-the-hacker-whose-qpeopleq-tr... _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
For some strange reasons, I seem to prefer frameworks over CMS. Some frameworks are quite easy to work with (after the steep learning curve), and you are able to generate robust modules in a few lines of code. At the same time, you get to have the modules personalised. Some frameworks also have whole collections of framework specific scripts, making them similar to modules in CMS. In addition you can tweak the scripts to reduce or increase their functionality. I think the fact that am more a coder makes me to want to see the code first than a user interface with code behind it. Basically, I think the only let down of frameworks is the learning curve...
Well said Kioko.... On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
For some strange reasons, I seem to prefer frameworks over CMS. Some frameworks are quite easy to work with (after the steep learning curve), and you are able to generate robust modules in a few lines of code. At the same time, you get to have the modules personalised. Some frameworks also have whole collections of framework specific scripts, making them similar to modules in CMS. In addition you can tweak the scripts to reduce or increase their functionality.
I think the fact that am more a coder makes me to want to see the code first than a user interface with code behind it.
Basically, I think the only let down of frameworks is the learning curve...
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-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
I once heard the analogy that a CMS is like a bus; you can turn it into an armored bus like those G4S courier ones<http://www.g4s.co.ke/%7E/media/Images/Header%20Images/ke_transport.ashx>, or a touring bus for Jua Kali <http://www.navigatorbus.com/>, or a money minting PSV for route 45. But its still a bus and serves the purpose for which a bus is made. On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
Well said Kioko....
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
For some strange reasons, I seem to prefer frameworks over CMS. Some frameworks are quite easy to work with (after the steep learning curve), and you are able to generate robust modules in a few lines of code. At the same time, you get to have the modules personalised. Some frameworks also have whole collections of framework specific scripts, making them similar to modules in CMS. In addition you can tweak the scripts to reduce or increase their functionality.
I think the fact that am more a coder makes me to want to see the code first than a user interface with code behind it.
Basically, I think the only let down of frameworks is the learning curve...
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-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
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A CMS would be the best thing assuming you have made one yourself, then you can do whatever you want with it more like the case of "Knight Rider" you convert it whenever, wherever, however it suits you or on a "per need" basis. Obviously the self made CMS has the pleasure of stripping whatever is not necessary making it lightweight to maintain or even improve. Outside that kind of environment, i'll stick with the frameworks.....
Am not a techy but I can give my experience from consulting for various clients. It all depends on the clients requirements.If its simple and you can find the modules from Joomla,Drupal etc But some times the client requirements are so specific that you might be required to look for other frameworks which gives you a base then the rest is upto your imagination.e.g Zend,Magento etc. Personally I also think the growth and learning curve is evident in both choice.Joomla etc will be common with upcoming and designers and programmers.Frameworks is common with developers with experience. For high end clients I prefer sourcing for guys with Framework knowledge and experience....it opens possibilities and uniqueness. I dont want to be told am still looking for an add-on or plugin etc(joomla). May non-technical view On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
Well said Kioko....
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
For some strange reasons, I seem to prefer frameworks over CMS. Some frameworks are quite easy to work with (after the steep learning curve), and you are able to generate robust modules in a few lines of code. At the same time, you get to have the modules personalised. Some frameworks also have whole collections of framework specific scripts, making them similar to modules in CMS. In addition you can tweak the scripts to reduce or increase their functionality.
I think the fact that am more a coder makes me to want to see the code first than a user interface with code behind it.
Basically, I think the only let down of frameworks is the learning curve...
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-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
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Well, it all depends on how flexible you want an application to be. We are all overlooking the fact that most CMS 'developers' in kenya are business men or noob developers who don't want to invest a lot of effort. However, a coder, a module developer would tell you that a cms is all you need, especially if your application only runs on the web since you can customize it to do what you want. On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Joseph McDonald <mcdonaldoj@gmail.com>wrote:
Am not a techy but I can give my experience from consulting for various clients.
It all depends on the clients requirements.If its simple and you can find the modules from Joomla,Drupal etc
But some times the client requirements are so specific that you might be required to look for other frameworks which gives you a base then the rest is upto your imagination.e.g Zend,Magento etc.
Personally I also think the growth and learning curve is evident in both choice.Joomla etc will be common with upcoming and designers and programmers.Frameworks is common with developers with experience.
For high end clients I prefer sourcing for guys with Framework knowledge and experience....it opens possibilities and uniqueness.
I dont want to be told am still looking for an add-on or plugin etc(joomla).
May non-technical view
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Gregory Okoth <gregory.okoth@gmail.com>wrote:
Well said Kioko....
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
For some strange reasons, I seem to prefer frameworks over CMS. Some frameworks are quite easy to work with (after the steep learning curve), and you are able to generate robust modules in a few lines of code. At the same time, you get to have the modules personalised. Some frameworks also have whole collections of framework specific scripts, making them similar to modules in CMS. In addition you can tweak the scripts to reduce or increase their functionality.
I think the fact that am more a coder makes me to want to see the code first than a user interface with code behind it.
Basically, I think the only let down of frameworks is the learning curve...
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-- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once!
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While the php application framework programmer is preffered for being able to produce what exactly is needed, im talking throw in a different workflow last minute and they still afford to smile and go 'just give me 1 more week'. The CMS programmer meanwhile is upcoming, fast! Take Drupal for instance, it has provision for both the framework and cms but the emphasis in the development community is: here is a module, build it to your functionality, rather than create a new one! The two are likely to meet and talk the same language, but while one always eats whats on the table, the other has to cook for themselves spending more time in the kitchen. On 10/12/10, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
*NB: This is not a post about which CMS is better than the other!* * * *Been a user and developer of several Content Management systems namely Drupal and Joomla and at least one framework, I tend to find out that CMS are great top a certain point. While tehy are easy to configure and present several modules, I tend to find them very rigid. *
**From observation, I have also seen this when other developers are doing something using a CMS e.g Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal. They tend to present a challenge when one requires functionality that is not present via any addon module or not fully implemented in one.
On the other hand, while frameworks e.g. Zend, Codeigniter or Django may require a bit more of traditional coding, I find them easier to use as they present a lot of freedom and are easy to use. They tend to provide a base where you can bvuilt your own module, or better yet import modules from others, and easily tweak them to what you would like.
Any one else who has varied experience between the two and which one , and why would they prefer it? -- with Regards:
The Hacker whose people troubled Paypal http://www.cio.co.ke/view-all-main-stories/1999-the-hacker-whose-qpeopleq-tr...
For me, I believe its the will-power to do something that matters! The attitude! I always tell myself all this technology was developed by beings, and we are not any lesser. So which is which? CMS eats whats on the table and Frameworks have to go back to the kitchen and start all over? I am not an authority in; neither am I a pro Joomla, but if I am not wrong, in my short-lived experience with Joomla CMS, it supports any code that is integratable in HTML, be it javascript or PHP. If I wanted a business specific module, I would do it on a separate webpage, use javascripts/php, connect to a test DB, test functionality and make sure everything is OK. I would then go create the same objects in my test DB on the Joomla DB, integrate the code well and test. Coding in whatever form, is all about translating the logic into code, then testing and testing and testing!! Its the resilience that determines if you really want to achieve ua goal!! -- Regards, Greg -------- Life is not a rehearsal, you only live once! On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Patrick Kariuki <patrick.kariuki@gmail.com
wrote:
While the php application framework programmer is preffered for being able to produce what exactly is needed, im talking throw in a different workflow last minute and they still afford to smile and go 'just give me 1 more week'. The CMS programmer meanwhile is upcoming, fast! Take Drupal for instance, it has provision for both the framework and cms but the emphasis in the development community is: here is a module, build it to your functionality, rather than create a new one!
The two are likely to meet and talk the same language, but while one always eats whats on the table, the other has to cook for themselves spending more time in the kitchen.
On 10/12/10, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
*NB: This is not a post about which CMS is better than the other!* * * *Been a user and developer of several Content Management systems namely Drupal and Joomla and at least one framework, I tend to find out that CMS are great top a certain point. While tehy are easy to configure and present several modules, I tend to find them very rigid. *
**From observation, I have also seen this when other developers are doing something using a CMS e.g Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal. They tend to present a challenge when one requires functionality that is not present via any addon module or not fully implemented in one.
On the other hand, while frameworks e.g. Zend, Codeigniter or Django may require a bit more of traditional coding, I find them easier to use as they present a lot of freedom and are easy to use. They tend to provide a base where you can bvuilt your own module, or better yet import modules from others, and easily tweak them to what you would like.
Any one else who has varied experience between the two and which one , and why would they prefer it? -- with Regards:
The Hacker whose people troubled Paypal
http://www.cio.co.ke/view-all-main-stories/1999-the-hacker-whose-qpeopleq-tr...
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participants (8)
-
Dennis Kioko -
Frankline Chitwa -
Gregory Okoth -
Joseph McDonald -
Joshua Twinamasiko G. -
Nd'wex Common -
Patrick Kariuki -
Peter Karunyu