this is back! I've moved from books and onto other books. Same story each time : not enough info or same method syntax that really is not what you want. All start with silly hallo world syntaxes that within a chapter or 2 is useless towards writing progs. Eg a good book I read so far ( IMHO ) is visual c# 2008 by John Sharp but by chapter 2 or 3 makes many assumptions. It is amazing how small the code portion becomes if you use correct method syntax and program flow. Why can't book writers use a standard convention of the best ways to write methods, then take it from there. A hallo world method with screen output has no place in this world! %^$%%!!! Any online college or Uni offering a sane way to learn visual c# you could refer me to? Anyone... :-) Rgds.