Peter BELOW IS THE THREAD Forwarded conversation Subject: [Skunkworks] Safaricom getting purnished unfairly ------------------------ From: *Peter Osotsi* <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:57 PM To: skunkworks <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Safaricom started out as a department at Telkom, naturally when you have your baby, you nurture and grow it until its grown and can not only dress and shower, but can go to school, get an education and look for a good job. Safaricom should not be blamed for the ills facing the telecommunications sector, Orange and other smaller players were piggy riding on the false promise that government will "cut safaricom to size" in order for them to turn a profit. Telkom has existed for so many years I fail to count, yet Orange keeps making noise. Why cant they leverage on the Telkom brand as Safaricom did and grow? Blaming Safaricom for their own inefficiencies wont make sense. Safaricom pays the exchequer a lot of money in both direct and indirect taxes, and employs many more people out of their mainstream employees - such as partners and vendors of airtime and mpesa, not roping in the various subscription based business models, not counting even baby sitters. Does Telkom employ even a single babysitter for their employees? How long does one get a response to their problem on a Telkom network? In my area, YU internet runs as GPRS, while Safaricom is past EDGE, way into WCDMA or HSPDA. Pretty fast connection. If YU doesnt upgrade its Internet, why should I be forced to use it? And Orange is not even there. Villifying Safaicom will just add to the specter of failed enterprises and the companies complaining do not have an innovative business model to take care of a competitive business environment. Much of what Safaricom is using to develop the infrastructure is borrowed money - money that they get from bonds on the free market. I've never heard Zain, YU or Orange getting bonds to the market to raise money to improve their network. Walalahoi. Nkt. What is Safaricom doing now that they cant do? They waited until Safaricom overly publicized Mpesa for them to develop and market their own, and when that flops, they turn to the government for salvation. That is unfair. Kenyans are not being forced on Safaricom, they choose it because the SIM cards they most likely find in the nearest market is a Safaricom line and Safaricom airtime. Then they know how to choose. If Safaricom gets rewarded for their innovation and aggressive product promotion to turn a profit, so should Orange, YU and Zain. For example, Telkom/Orange keeps copying everything Safaricom does - like promotions. So how does a copy cat survive when they don't know what drives Safaricom to engage in such business practices? Infantile antics will not bring a proft to these companies. They must innovate, or just like Popote Wireless and Flashcom, they will sink with the hopes of a nation. We must Appreciate innovation and aggressive product tendencies so that like South African companies, we conquer our region. The new form of slavery, just like in the old form, needs some savages, and thats the difference. Even Access Kenya is going to die because they are not innovative. When the market needed them, they kept on shifting goal posts until Safaricom came and took hold of the market AK could not claim. Now AK has no room for further grown unless they innovate! I think in the not too distant future, the Somen's will see the fruits of innovation or lack of it, just like Popote Wireless, Flashcom, Zain, YU, Orange, UUNET and so on. And the fruits might leave a bitter taste like what YU/Orange/Zain are finding now. Please government, don't sacrifice innovation over ineptitude. The biggest loser will be the Kenya people you are purporting to be trying to save. The key wasnt monopoly, it was about allowing more players to bring competition into town and to help drive prices down. If the players can't play, they should be replaced with more savvy players who cherish competition. That's how a Kenyan will benefit. Blaming others for your ineptitude is juvenile. ------- Don't wait for success; hunt it down like there's no tomorrow. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Kenneth Muhia* <kzmuhia@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:07 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Walala I have to agree with you on this one. The subscibers have spoken, let their voice be heard Regrds K Z M ---"It's not your blue blood, your pedigree or your college degree. It's what you do with your life that counts. --- _______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *pithon kamau* <pitkag@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:08 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> I wanted to say all this bt i didnt know how to place it You are on point Regards Pithon -- Pithon K. Kamau Mobile: 0723 588705 / 0737 686562 Tel: +254 20 8083989 Website: www.heartbitsolutions.com Blog: www.pithonkamau.com Website Design, Domain Registration, Website Hosting, Corporate Email Solutions, Website Maintainance, Website Marketing, Logo Design and Branding, Bulk SMS Solutions, Computer Hardware and Maintainance, Network Design and Set Up............. "Love Your Neighbour as You Love Yourself" _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Robert Alai* <alai.robert@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:09 PM To: Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Cc: ">" <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>, bidiiafricaint < bidiiafricaINT@googlegroups.com> Peter Osotsi I just wished you could be man enough to face people and argue your "facts" in the same forum you are quoting. But getting arguments from mlalahoi and going to shout elsewhere is like failing to argue and reach amicable solution with your wife then you go out and start shouting jawuoro erooooo (glutton glutton) Alai -- TO ADVERTISE HERE PLEASE M-PESA KSH 1,000 to +254 726 034 530 (reach over 20,000 potential clients directly and over 2 million indirectly) MY AFRICAN CAREER VACANCIES: http://www.myafricancareer.net/ TECHMTAA BLOG: http://bit.ly/cmRFZR To unsubscribe from this group, Email mlalahoi+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<mlalahoi%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com> TRAINING VIDEOS; CISM / CISSP / MCTS / CISA / CCNA / CCNP / MCSE / MCITP / PHP / PHOTOSHOP / DREAMWEAVER / WEB DESIGN and others, CALL 0726 034 530 ---------- From: *Eric Mugo* <kabugum@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:11 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> I agree...i dont like Safaricom Prices that much but i still believe they should not be punished for their innovation....if zain/orange/Yu cant hack it..they should pack up and sell their shareholdings to companies with Real Balls like MTN of SA....personally im surprised even YU can complain despite having lots of expertise of getting and retaining millions of customers in India.... Zain/Celtel/Kencell should not even be talking....they simply dug the hole they are in without anyone's help and the sad thing is that they have never ever learn't their lesson....they keep repeating the same mistakes.... last but not least..i think this Government has totally lost it on Market controls...what they should really be doing is controlling the market dynamics of Food, fuel, matatu fares, etc....atleast with airtime we have choices in that we can easily move to another operator...but Fuel...where are we going to go.....Dubai????? oopsss..you need a degree...Saudi Arabia...well..if you love your Women/Men and booze...clearly...u cant survive there... _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *James Wachira* <jwaciira.lists@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:11 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> I have been wondering what all this press statements have been about. Safaricom vs. Yu Orange and Zain Well put. Thanks, With Kind Regards James Wachira Nairobi .ke twitter: jwaciira | yahoo: jwaciira | gtalk: jwaciira | skype: jwaciira _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Robert Alai* <alai.robert@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:14 PM To: Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Cc: ">" <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>, bidiiafricaint < bidiiafricaINT@googlegroups.com> And for the Record, Yu, Zain and Orange cant be on a better service (read 3G) because Safaricom is standing on the way. Infact Safaricom is single handedly lobbying to block the licensing of the 3G demanding that people pay a prize which it doesnt want the market to determine. And do your homework well about how you get to offer incentives. Is Safaricom the only successful EA company? And does it offer baby sitters? I think you are grossly misled by half truths. I agree that Orange and Zain have also become very stagnant on innovation but the truth is that Safaricom success is not much about innovation. NO. We know better. Alai ---------- From: *Alvin Jason Ochieng* <ajochola@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:14 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> @ Peter ....true dat !! but i hope you copy pasted all this ....wow !! ---------- From: *Imelda Mueni* <mueni0@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:22 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> hi, @peter i need to catch up! what kind of regulations has CCK come up with ? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Peter Osotsi* <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:22 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Alvin; Im seething with anger the whole day, why kill an innovative company? Me _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Alvin Jason Ochieng* <ajochola@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:28 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Politics Peter....... ---------- From: *Peter Osotsi* <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:33 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Alvin; Politics doesnt feed me, it keeps me hungry. Politics doesn't turn a profit, an innovative company does. Politics doesn't employ me - they take my taxes and waste it, an innovative company rewards its employees who in turn reward people close to them, including you, the customer - with good/exemplary service. They should not please a few players that do not know what they need to do in the first place. Please no more politics. Nkt. Peter _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Watson Kambo* <wkwats@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:57 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> I do agree about the Safaricom being harassed as of now ... But I would not blame The new players at least, not Zain, The Government made safcom into what it is right now, they took too long to bring in new players in the Market. Maybe its because of some few individuals that benefited from all that, remember the ghost company that owned 5%? The situation is now a bit hard for the small players ( Zain Excluded ... they had all the time ) if Orange or YU introduces a Tariff '' Talk all day for one BOB'' Safcom due to its might both on the Market share and Income revenues will introduce '' Bonga na Shilingi" and as you can see anything the new entrants come up with Safcom can do it better.... To avoid this situation as is right now the Government should have Licensed at least Four Serious Guys long time Ago... but for now Even MTN cannot shake Safcom in the Kenyan Market ... just like if Safcom was to set up shop in Nigeria they would be another ''YU'' -- Watson wanjohi kambo _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Odhiambo Washington* <odhiambo@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:01 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> <Quote> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Mwaura, Chrispin C wrote:
People
The fact is that Safaricom knows that if the interconnectivity charges are lowered or at par with the competition then people will not stay for long with them. FACT – it is expensive calling from SAFCOM TO THE ‘’OTHERS’’ –whereas it is CHEAPER FROM THE ‘’OTHERS’’ TO SAFCOM- WHY – SAFCOM HAVE THE MAJORITY OF MOBILE PHONE OWNERS.
So this is blocking many Kenyans to move to the other mobile phone companies- and Safcom knows about this, otherwise they would not be fighting the new rules. Going to court will not work for them now.
CCK should be supported 100% - most Kenyans have at least two lines- Safcom-Zain, Safcom-YU, Safcom -Orange – reason inter-connectivity charges.
</Quote> </Quote> That is what I say is "Very well spoken!" I carry three lines with me always: Safaricom, Zain and Yu. What always scares me is calling the other networks from Safaricom. Not vice versa. I therefore fully support CCK on this move. Obviously, some of us have their eyes closed. Others have a bias in their thinking, but again we are all entitled to our opinions..Safaricom locks callers to their network. That cannot be disputed, and such are what CCK are out to address. -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "If you have nothing good to say about someone, just shut up!." -- Lucky Dube _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Okechukwu* <okechukwu@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:02 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> All I see here is a personal opinion, and not a direct reference to the said laws and where the laws are punishing SufferingCon ./Ok3ch ---------- From: <mikeoketch@aol.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:04 PM To: skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke Osotsi *You have lots of facts wrong and you know that you cant face the truth on that. I have replied in BOLD!!!* *Safaricom never started and has never been a depertment of Safaricom. Safaricom has been a companyof its own only that it was one time a sister company of Telkom Kenya because the Kenyan government owned shares in Safaricom through Telkom Kenya. So Safaricom being a department of Telkom Kenya is just so so wrong.* *Listen to me. Do you even know what you are talking about? Noise on Safaricom started coming out in 2005. That was even before inception of Orange Kenya and so your info of Orange kenya is flawed. And the issues which we have had with Safaricom Kenya are regulatory issues. If you scored goals while the match referee was looking away dont say that you are a good footballer.* *So if you pay the government money then that gives you the license to do whatever you like? How much does tha bandit economy bring to the country? Why is it hard to argue that then let us allow drug dealers since they will make billions and bring the money to the government? And so you dont know even what Safaricom offers to its employee. Safaricom has never hired any baby sitter for its employees. Let us not display laymanship and ignorance here. * * * *Yu, Zain and Orange cannot provide the superior service because Safaricom is literally and single handedly blocking the payment of the licence. Safaricom rode on Telkom Kenya network for many years and for absolutely no fee. And Safaricom is now saying that for anyone to get licensed, they must pay what Safaricom pay. Safaricom paid 25 Million USD when the market was virgin. Now almost 40% of the data market is being exhausted. Safaricom cannot demand that all pay the 25 Million USD. The market dynamics have changed. Let us grow up and stop all these cheap arguments.* *Do you know anything about borrowing from the bourse? DO you know the rules, regulations and processes? You just dont go and borrow. Man do you research. Stop these pedestrian arguments.* *As far as I know. Safaricom got it very easy and through patronage and favouritism. Safaricom got lucrative government contracts and mostly were single sourced because the government then and even Kibaki's , before 2007, had very good amount of individual official interests. Dont we know stories of Mobitelea? * * * *Dont we all know what Safaricom did. Did they reward the inventor. Didnt Safaricom go to UK to patent the technology. Have they released the API to developers? NO. Because if they are good at it, the innovators would dicover their lies and they wont survive with the system for even a single day. Safaricom fears regulations and * *You can call it whatever you want but you are more of an infant here because none of the arguments you present here measure to technological Maturity. The URL where all the tegulations are is ** http://www.cck.go.ke/regulations/sector_regulations.html*<http://www.cck.go.ke/regulations/sector_regulations.html> * * *Read them and stop being reactionary. Quote specific clauses because Safaricom has failed to quote because not works against them. And the regulations talks of the dominant operator. Safaricom and Orange are dominant in Mobile and Data sectors respectively. Why is Safaricom feeling targeted? Because with a level playing field, they wont make it. And for your info, in any market, a company cannot be allowed to control 80% of the market. That is monopoly. That is pure monopoly and CCK suspended regulations for a long time but they must act now* * * *Guys, I expect very strong arguments from skunkers and not these cheap praise singing and then we have people who should know better yelling YEAH YEAH. Did we even go to school?* *Just Now Safaricom is facing accusations on bribery and secret and lobbying tactics in the award of tender for the number portability solution provision. * _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Kenfish* <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:05 PM To: youngprofessionals_ke <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com> others for your ineptitude is juvenile. -- TOMORROW!!!!!! *_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_**_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_* Event: LEAGUE OF YOUNG PROFESSIONALS INVESTMENT FORUM Date: Thursday 6th May 2010 Venue: Marble Arch Hotel, Lagos Road, OPP. Nairobi Fire Station Time: 5.45pm- 7.45pm Guest Speaker: Jimnah Mbaru Topic: Investments Opportunities Cost: 250 for tea and snacks Register NOW by texting your name to 0721 663 208 or sending an email to youngprofessionals.ke@gmail.com ---------- From: *kennedy kariuki* <kkairu@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:11 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> NUFF SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Peter Osotsi* <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:14 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> guys; There goes Robert Alai as usual. Anyway, that was my opinion. Unfortunately, in my shags, its Zain and Safaricom, and almost everyone is on Safaricom. Can Zain ask themselves why no subscribers? There are very few shops with Zain airtime, if any. Now they should address that. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Bernard Mwagiru* <bmwagiru@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:15 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Totally agree with you Okech.... ./bernard _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *[ Brainiac ]* <arebacollins@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:17 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> I disagree,,,, except for interconnectivity charges. That should come down, then leave every man (or telco) to himself. -- Posted on 100% recycled electrons _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *David Mugo* <raidarmax@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:13 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> 100% agreement with Mike. David.-- ------------- http://blog.majibu.com _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Alvin Jason Ochieng* <ajochola@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:28 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> MIKE now thats what I call a MAYWEATHER TKO !!! ---------- From: *Okechukwu* <okechukwu@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:28 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Does anyone have the exact laws that were published on pdf so that we may understand why one grown man is grumbling while three others are cheering? ./Ok3ch ---------- From: *Robert Alai* <alai.robert@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:28 PM To: Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Cc: ">" <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>, bidiiafricaint < bidiiafricaINT@googlegroups.com> Osotsi Instead of facing facts and stopping cheap arguments, you would rather talk of Alai "as usual". What a waste we have in the Kenyan youth ---------- From: <mikeoketch@aol.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:34 PM To: skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke Guys The regulations are here http://www.cck.go.ke/regulations/sector_regulations.html Let nobody cheat you that CCK is targeting Safaricom. Like we said to Dr Ndemo. We as the young people can innovate with cheap technology but we will resort to Haki Yetu antics if and when some players are allowed unofficial monopoly since we wont ever get cheaper services. I like the arguments of Odhiambo. Safaricom holds all the high spenders and it is stifling competition Oketch _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Kenfish* <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:01 PM To: MlalaHoi <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com> Robert; No one has stopped Zain, YU or Orange from getting a 3G, 4G or whatever G license they want to implement. If Safaricom bought the lisence for $200m, at the old market price, and considering the market wasnt known, ZAIN/YU/Orange should even buy at a higher price because valuation improves with time. For example, the value of a house then was at KSh 2.5 Million, now the same house costs Ksh. 13 Million, a whooping x5. US $ 200m should now be at USD 1billion. Instead they are being asked to pay at an old price when it was easier to buy a license. If they don't have money, just like Safaricom, they should go to the open/free markets and float a bond. Safaricom does that all the time. Have I ever heard the noisy lot raise capital from the free markets? Robert, scan through the forum and get someone who is as angry as me, and point me to him. The fact is, no one is talking. I cant side with companies that sit on their laurels and complain loudly at no provocation. They should innovate or die a slow painful death. Kenfish ---------- From: *Robert Alai* <alai.robert@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 7:43 PM To: MlalaHoi <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com> Peter I like professionals to argue from a point of information. Frequency spectrum fee is not like the fee of Land or Housing. It is like the fee of a car. The value depreciates. It is only Kenya which still charges for this in the region. Uganda and Tanzania completely removed the upfront charge for this service. South Africa has a condition that it is free but you have to connect 5,000 schools with internet immediately you rollout. Botswana has no fee for this spectrum. Why should Kenya be charging 25 Million USd for somethign which is free elsewhere. The question is not even the cost. The question is why is the buyer setting up and determining market rates? Market forces should do this and not one buyer. ALai ---------- From: *Gituma Nturibi* <gnturibi@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:38 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Guys the regulations will probably make safcom lower their tariffs- cheaper calls for the subscribers. How is that a bad thing? The subscriber wins, making it easier to do business, not having to carry 3 or 4 lines with you to keep in touch. That makes communication simpler for us. Then the companies can be judged on the quality of their service. Don't like one network? Move with your number to another... Been waiting for this for years! ---------- From: *David Kiania | Asentric Consulting Ltd* <kianiadee@gmail.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 10:03 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> I think this discussion is too skewed toward the Mobile sector what I would be interested to know, would the same law apply to KDN, Wananchi Online, KBC (Signet) or Citizen TV should it be found that they are abusing their Fiber/Airwaves or HFC deployments for market share? If not then yes Safaricom is being targeted. No regulation should target a player (Unless they are Micro$oft or Intel). Let's also not forget the DG's background he was working in Competition dept, it was only a matter of time before this kind of measure showed up, some personal fingerprint and accolades for taming the bad boys. My thoughts Kiania D -- [Asentric Consulting Ltd] If a man has in himself the soul of a slave will he not become one no matter what his birth .... -Richest Man in Babylon ---------- From: <mikeoketch@aol.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 10:28 PM To: skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke David Thanks for bringing this out. The regulation will touch on anyone who wants to dominate any sector. It is not targeting a player. Safaricom's argument is this. "*We are the only one with over 25% market share hence for now, we are alone in the boiling pot of this regulation*". My bad. Yes you are being roasted but it is not personal MJ. And these are rules which should have been introduced loong time ago. The condition in the market now is that Safaricom is a monopoly. That is making competition and consumer right side issues. We must fight for this and the only way Safaricom will change is when we tell them that no, they must reform. The market is not level and so others cant compete. Safaricom will even get alot of airtime telling their story but others will be shut out because of the kidn of money which Safaricom spends in the advertisement. Oketch _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Suzane Wairimu* <suzane_za@yahoo.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:21 PM To: youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com I do believe its very unfair for the Zain,orange and Yu camp to try and make safaricom look bad. I have been having some serious issues with Zain sinc last year.You drop a document at Koinage office and the next minute you are told to take the same document to mombasa road. When ever i have isses with Safaricom ,i usually get a response within the 6hours of sending the email. Safaricom has earned its position to be where it is now.I do belive you must work had hard to stand out,Zain was there when safcom started. I strongly belive safcom should not be treated unfairly. --- On Wed, 5/5/10, Kenfish <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Kenfish <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Subject: [YP_Ke] Safaricom getting purnished unfairly To: "youngprofessionals_ke" <youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com> Date: Wednesday, May 5, 2010, 3:05 PM
---------- From: *Mwaura, Chrispin C* <MwauraC@stanbic.com> Date: Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:38 PM To: youngprofessionals_ke@googlegroups.com All said and done - the inter-connectivity charges has to come down so that we can call our friends on the other networks without changing sim cards or owning 2 phones/more. Ama?? Quality matters so it is unlikely that Safaricom customers will move to the competition as soon as the rules are implemented,- we'll weigh the options first. Rgds Standard Bank email disclaimer and confidentiality note Please go to http://www.standardbank.co.za/site/homepage/emaildisclaimer.html to read our email disclaimer and confidentiality note. Kindly email disclaimer@standardbank.co.za (no content or subject line necessary) if you cannot view that page and we will email our email disclaimer and confidentiality note to you. -- TODAY!!!!!! 50 YPS HAVE CONFIRMED ATTENDING Date: Today Thursday 6th May 2010 Program • Registration of Attendants: 5:45pm – 6:00pm • Meeting call to order 6:00 – 6:05 • Introductions of Members 6:05 - 6: 20 • Brief on the rules & regulations under which we shall be operating the LYP Investment Club; Official from the Ministry of Co-operatives 6: 20 – 6: 35 • Talk by Jimnah Mbaru, CEO & Chairman Dyer & Blair 6: 40 – 7: 20 • Tea & Networking (Members to leave at leisure) 7:30 onwards >>>>> ALL are Invited. Tag your friends along!! ---------- From: *Kenneth Muhia* <kzmuhia@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 9:52 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> @Mike, Other than the fact that you have put your points in bold they do not invalidate what Osotsi spoke about. Sufferingcon started of as a department in TKL at least the GSM company it became. They always paid for their use of TKL resources in form of interconnect. They borrow from the bourse They give the govt lotsa legit income and ................. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Eric Mugo* <kabugum@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:16 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> CCK only regulates the communications sector therefore other sectors will not be affected.... (How comes no one talks about how EABL went about killing Keroche industries.....these regulations cannot even assist Keroche).....The Government messed up from the beginning and let Safaricom become what is it today. To be fair we cannot fully blame Safaricom...Kencell was there as competition and we all know the road they took...therefore Safaricom simply took advantage of the situation and used it efficiently.... If you have read that document, you will realize that becoming a dominant player is almost like a curse...there are so many decisions that are beyond the business itself and have to be approved by an outside entity who will not care much on the effect of the decisions to the business.....these regulations while i would like to believe they are meant for the good of the consumers, they smell of Revenge and maliciousness towards safaricom of which some of us are shareholders.....one thing people need to remember is that it is also the only publicly listed Telco with Mwananchi shareholders....who owns the competitors...some foreigners and a few wealthy individuals I don't see this tactic working even if they are enforced in the worst case scenario. The reason being Safaricom did not become what it is today purely because of pricing, its mostly because of innovation and the wide range of products the competitors cannot match up...but if it does work, then shareholders may consider _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Imelda Mueni* <mueni0@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:40 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Hi Peter Osotsi Did you really read the regulations by CCk , just read it and i think CCk is trying to protect us consumers and unfair dominance in the market , things like tarrifs regulation, the easy of a consumer to move from one provider to another (which safaricom has made it so difficult ) , they can resolve problems btwn consumer n provider and much more .. am surprised u still call this "unfair" punishment of safaricom ( or the meaning of unfair changed ), its about time they clipped there wings My thoughts! _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Ruth Were* <nafuna@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:45 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> I feel you sana Imelda, Its time the CCK clipped Safcoms wings... Wametunyanyasa sana _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Musya mike* <mmycool@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:58 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> IMO these regulations sound communistic...There has always been freedom of choice...If u feel umenyanyaswa kuna zain...VUKA...There is YU(cheapest by the way),Orange. The only reason why i stick with safcom is that it gives value for my money. Compare the services...mpesa,bambanet,Ongea...name them vs zap(Availability),yucash(never 'seen' it),cant talk of data services from the other providers.Should one be crucified for innovation? Remember Kencell was once 'the dominant'. Providing services that resonate with the consumers...You and me. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Ruth Were* <nafuna@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:08 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Hands down they are innovative but they also are restrictive. If they didnt have anything to fear, they shud have lowered their rates from one network to another. Secondly they have the worst customer service in the universe thirdly, they embark on services that they cannot handle like being an ISP fourth, they have such high tariffs and poor network ( I mean they still use analog signals) shud I say more.. What the CCK is doing is good because it is finally doing its job. It will ensure WE the consumers have value for our money. I think its about time they woke up and started working. Kudos CCK. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Njoroge Tito* <titonjoroge@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:15 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> @Ruth, I am interested in that last statement, where do they use analogue signals? _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Mark Mwangi* <mwangy@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:19 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Remember that choice is an illusion offered by those in power (read the rich) to make the populace think that they are in control. . . Telling me to move to another provider yet the dominant player rakes in billions hence can buy 3G/ 4G licenses and has government support and clout then you aint convincing me . . True MJ is one heck of a leader and he has done good for the company but remember when safcom to other networks was 50/- ? Is that fair? They shud be regulated and just cause they are innovative and make more sense doesn't mean they shud be left to do what will rake in maximum profit @ the detriment of consumer services and freedom . . . . -- Regards, Mark Mwangi http://mwangy.blogspot.com Skype : mark.mwangy ---------- From: *John Ndambuki* <johnmndambuki@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:53 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> @Ruth: "I mean they still use analog signals?" Please expound... Kind Regards John _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Gideon Kirui* <gideon.kirui@kdn.co.ke> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:04 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> @mark here we go again ..another conspiracy theory. <HTML> <font size ='2' color='blue'>This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version.</br> <b>Kenya Data Networks,</b> </br> <b>Tel: +254(20)5000000,</b> </br> <b>www.kdn.co.ke</b></br> </font> </HTML> ---------- From: <ashok+skunkworks@parliaments.info<ashok%2Bskunkworks@parliaments.info>
Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:12 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> PLEASE READ CAREFULLY. By reading this email, you agree, on behalf of KDN , to release me from all obligations and waivers arising from any and all non-negotiated agreements, licenses, terms-of-service, confidentiality, non-disclosure, non-compete and acceptable / bogus use policies that I have entered into with your employer, its partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, without prejudice to my ongoing rights and privileges. You further represent that you have the authority to release me from any use policies / bogus agreements on behalf of your employer. thanks & regards ashok ---------- From: *Joseph Wayodi* <jwayodi@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 1:09 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> It's an *illusion* of very tight ass covering. Just in case, ummm ... LOL _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Okechukwu* <okechukwu@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:01 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Half the arguments in this thread are way out of point - No one says that SufferCon has to be punished for being a market leader, the regulations say that whenever you are a market leader (and please save all of us the info of how SafCon became one - we all know), then you must play fairly - not with impunity knowing whatever the other does you can do better. The issues of how much SafCon paid for 3G license has nothing to do with all these. Lets argue to the point on the regulations, and am sure half of those arguing here have not taken time to read these regulations. ./Ok3ch ---------- From: *Peter Osotsi* <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:18 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Let me be a little clear (Imelda? etal). Has Safaricom stopped anyone from purchasing a YU line (cheapest), YU Cash, or YU airtime? No. Has Safaricom shut down a rivals outlets? No. Has Safaricom stopped their subscribers from subscribing to a rivals Internet? No. We have even been unlocking their modems to use on rival networks and they don't complain. Why is it so? The rival networks can't even offer modems, and they expect to rival Safaricom Internet business models. In the USA, you are forced on a network and migrating to another network is a nightmare, even phone makers discriminate. Now in Kenya, its free for all e.g. everyone for himself God for us all. If you don't make due diligence, you will suffer. And when you suffer, you stick with the person that offers service thats close to what will comfort you - in this case, 78% feel Safaricom offers the comfort. Let the market determine, not mandarins. We are a free economy anyway, customer is king. Peter partners, licensors, agents and assigns, in perpetuity, withoutDon't wait
for success; hunt it down like there's no tomorrow.
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Eric Mugo* <kabugum@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:29 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Therefore Safaricom having had the upperhand all these years and "abused" it, CCK has decided to end the culture of impunity. These regulations give CCK control over such issues such as pricing which to some point is fair to the consumer in the long run. But how is it fair to request Safaricom to report all its innovations (new products) to CCK before it's released to the Market. That means the product will surely be leaked to the competitor and they will release the same products (they don't have to report to CCK since they are not dominant).....thats killing a company surely On a lighter note, it seems to be so hard to be objective on this issue...some arguements here are very subjective including some of my own....guess it depends on which experience you have had with Safaricom On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Okechukwu <okechukwu@gmail.com> wrote:
Half the arguments in this thread are way out of point - No one says the market
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Pius Walela* <PWalela@strathmore.edu> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:31 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Dear Skunks, Recent developments in the mobile telephony sector are of concern …reminds me of a college adage …hate the game and not the player. I opine that for a true Capitalist society to manifest the market should be subject to forces of demand and supply to create conducive conditions for the market to thrive and in extension to ensure its longevity. However Oligopolistic and monopolistic tendencies in the market ought to be constrained to cushion feeble players and potential new entrants from eventual or outright failure, as such regulation is essential however regulations have to be moderated. *Pius W Walela* *Research Programs Adminstrator* *Faculty of Information Technology* *Strathmore University * *Tel : +254 -020- 606155 Ext 2320* *Web : www.strathmore.edu/fit* *Email : pwalela@strathmore.edu* * ...................................................................................... * * * *"Only the human mind constrains itself" Unquote* *........................................................................* ------------------------------ Strathmore University provides all-round education in an atmosphere of freedom and responsibility. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for use by the recipient(s) to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential information. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete this email and/or any files attached to it from your computer. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Strathmore University. The University accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss or damages incurred, or suffered, resulting, or arising, from the use of this email and/or its attachments. The University warrants neither the integrity of the e-mail nor its freedom from errors, viruses, interception or any other form of interference. …………………………………………………………………. Website: www.strathmore.edu _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Bernard Mwagiru* <bmwagiru@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:33 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> The contentious regulations have to to do with tariff regulations 2010 and Fair competition and equality of Treat 2010. Both of these specifically target the dorminant player. Thats the contentious issue. In the spirit of fairness, rules, in any game, should target all players equally. ./bernard _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Musya mike* <mmycool@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 5:03 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> "Every day in Africa a gazelle wakes up. It knows it must run faster than the fastest lion or it will be killed. Every morning a lion wakes up. It knows that it must outrun the slowest gazelle or it will starve to death. It doesn’t matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle. When the sun comes up, you better be running." Abe Gubegna Ethiopia, circa 1974. They were slow,entered the lion n now they are crying foul play...Ever wondered how personalized safcom is? Okoa jahazi...name them... I rest my case. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Imelda Mueni* <mueni0@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 7:53 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> @peter*ok**actually the answer is yes, with its dorminance most people in our life are in safaricom hence to move to another subscriber its difficult because its expensive to call a number thats not safaricom , hence making it cheaper still think CCK is unfair ? safaricom has never subsided there tarrifs cause they know its hard for consumers to move to other subcribers , after years of there poor service and "utado" attitude its a breathe of fresh air to consumers, we can finally move to other subscribers and my friends in suffericom can still call me without feeling the pinch of tarrifs how can a company dominate , yet they have the most expensive service something was just not right ! kudos CCK * _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Job Muriuki* <muriukin@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 8:27 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> If cck had not slept on their job safaricom would not be what it is now. It has the worst voice services and customer care, and the reason why people dont move from safaricom its cause of the attachment they have to their number no wonder its against number porting since they will lose big. I think MJ saw that coming no wonder he wants to leave end of the year before it gets tough. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *solomon kariri* <solomonkariri@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 6, 2010 at 9:53 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Wazi Job. Hitting de nail on da head -- Solomon Kariri, Software Developer, Cell: +254736 729 450 Skype: solomonkariri _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *aki* <aki275@googlemail.com> Date: Fri, May 7, 2010 at 9:45 AM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> As I'm a self ban, I think you may find below interesting. :-) CCK is not to be blamed for anything, infact it must be congratulated for what it has done for the Telco sector. The politics that have dominated affordability are the main cause of kenyans problems in the telco sector but it is kenyans who pushed for it. In a recent study done by an independent ( The article was published on the net, dont have it bookmarked ) on Telcos, it was found that Zain was the best performing network while Safaricom was the worst. Performance ratings was based on call terminations, drops and other data based on the actual networks. In a nutshell, to understand the problem, we have to go back in time. Celtel was establishing itself as a quality service provider while Safaricom was also following suit. The rates were expensive and there was a drive to ensure that affordability was key priority. At that time, someone in Safaricom went the congested way to achieve the maximum numbers on the exisiting infrastructure. For any services running on a network, there are 2 possible business scenarios = Quality or Congested Services. Quality is expensive while congested services are much much cheaper but border very closely to non-performance. Safaricom became the champion because it could now drop prices on the congested model and now kenyans were happy that finally mobile services were becoming affordable. Celtel was disliked for not dropping rates but still offered the best network and customer services. This would change later as the market indicators confirmation was quantity not quality. There was no need for CCK to intervene at any stage except when the congested model got out of hand and voice services were affected. Overall, it was working, though not to standards expected. Safaricom saw serious growth with the model and would now exploit it further by introducing short term tariffs and millions of Kenyans were moving onto the network. Question : Should CCK have intervened and clamped down on Safaricom to adhere to quality , Like Celtel, or let Safaricom continue its journey of serving millions of kenyans? If it did, it would seem like it was going against popular opinions. I can write plenty of pages but will keep it short. Safaricom has done excellent work in its models and so has the CCK. The kenyan telco market is way past fixing any problems because price is king and the economics shows it will alway be about numbers with a tiny tolerable margin of quality. The same applies for data services. All operators are following this mode so if you ever expect any real quality, sorry it is not going to happen anytime soon. One negative impact I see of the new rules is that telcos will start clamping down on services that are competing on its networks like voip, chat, messenger and sms via internet due to narrowing margins. I hope we are not going backwards... Me thots. ---------- From: *John Doe* <fivepings@gmail.com> Date: Fri, May 7, 2010 at 8:21 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> Ugrateful Kenyans. If it was upto celtel, you'd still be on per minute billing paying ksh 40 for a 10s dropped call. Are the regulations good for the consumer...yes! Are they bad for Safaricom Yes! Are they good for Zain,Yu and Orange? For the time being, yes! Question is, if you were CCK, what would you do? My take; CCK did what CCK had to do. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *aki* <aki275@googlemail.com> Date: Fri, May 7, 2010 at 10:13 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> I;m not sure what you've made of my previous mail but it's not about ungrateful anyone. I wrote the mail in defense of CCK and from a network angle but I recommend you should also not approach it from an uninformed view that you would still be paying Ksh40 ( inter-connect charges? ) after 5 years. JohnDoe, I have a question for you and has nothing to do with CCK but general telco operators. How come it seems that services have been getting cheaper yet not better than they were? The dynamics of large scale business is that cheaper costs, improved product delivery and services are the end results as the sector grows. Then how come ours is a negative case? What is wrong with this picture? ---------- From: *aki* <aki275@googlemail.com> Date: Fri, May 7, 2010 at 11:11 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> my apology @JohnDoe, I re-read your mail and kindly ignore my previous comment. Multi-tasking can be a problem sometimes. Cheers. Am on hibernation mode. :-) On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 10:13 PM, aki <aki275@googlemail.com> wrote:
I;m not ........
---------- From: *Peter Osotsi* <peter.osotsi@gmail.com> Date: Sat, May 8, 2010 at 1:23 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> I wish these regulations would apply to water, electricity, gasoline or house rent. On the issue at hand, the telco's have been very generous both on pricing and in service delivery. They've been reducing their prices, although slowly. I think if you have a problem with one telco u move to another. As for water, electricity, gasoline and rent, wherever you go doesn't matter, it only gets worse and thats where this energy should be spent. Peter _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Anthony Njoroge* <njorogan@gmail.com> Date: Mon, May 10, 2010 at 12:01 PM To: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> What I wonder is what had Telkom been doing when Safaricom were making money? They shouldn't even utter a single word of protest. You know the length you take to get a landline? N'way, basically I can see what CCK is trying to do. Reduce their costs for other provider benefits. Well, Peter you used the example of nuturing a child. What happens if the child has a say, small brother who is struggling. The parents tend to use more money to take the child for extra tuition, more incentives like if you ace your math exam i'll buy you a car. Its not right, but you have to look at the other end of the coin. What Safcom should push for Exemptions and refunds where applicable. Alternatively, Safcom can buy ou the other private providers and make it a Telkom vs Safcom bit, in which the government still has stake I dunno, its a messy situation but Safaricom will survive in whateva is agreed upon. They may be damaged, but they will survive. Its void for them if they go to court over something that will take a lot of time and money, but they can seek redress. _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------ Skunkworks Server donations spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AopdHkqSqKL-dHlQVTMxU1VBdU1BSWJxdy1f... ------------ Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke ---------- From: *Robert Alai* <alai.robert@gmail.com> Date: Thu, May 13, 2010 at 5:47 PM To: bidiiafricaint@googlegroups.com Cc: Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com>, ">" <mlalahoi@googlegroups.com>, digafrica@yahoogroups.com Gichigo Safaricom was a department of KPTC but never of Telkom Kenya. Telkom was also a department of KPTC Robert On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Michael Gichigo <gichigo70@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter, I feel you, brother. I really liked your contribution and while I can not verify all the details, I feel inclined to comment on the origin of Safaricom. Sample this:
Osotsi : Safaricom started out as a department at Telkom. Oketch: Safaricom never started and has never been a depertment of * Safaricom.*
I don't know where my name-sake got this from, but we can not say he is right. I visited Safaricom website and got this:-
"Safaricom, which started as a department of Kenya Posts & Telecommunications Corporation..."
Of course KP&TC is the present-day Telkom.
Mike
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On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com>wrote:
Chief,
May I disassociate myself from any association with Safaricom, whether real or implied. Im just doing this in my capacity as an independent tech observer. I spend a lot on Safaricom because I benefit a lot from those calls. If your union with whomever is beneficial, learn to appreciate without grumbling. They always know you carry a burden and at some point they will listen. Don't get beating and wailing as if you didn't have options before you joined the union.
We don't need to see saw as if we have no specific point in life. As a techie, I have both Zain and Safaricom lines since 2001 and sparingly use them as need arises - and Safcom have been more honest with their tariffs (their tariffs don't disappear midterm with the introduction of newer tariffs, they are predictable).
And I don't fall for the mob.
/.0721586109// /.0733911199//
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Theus Owicho <owichot@gmail.com> wrote:
Peter
We have confirmed from a senior executive at Safcom that there will be a big reduction tomorrow of call rates and it might be just the lowest ever.
I know and you have confirmed that you benefit alot from your dealership with Safaricom but lets be honest and level headed here. Safaricom has been a ripoff and the arrogance and chest thumping by the few greedy people who have been relying on it is the main undoing. If you are a true friend of Safaricom, tell it its mistakes. Stop the chest thumping
Owicho
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Peter Osotsi <peter.osotsi@gmail.com>wrote:
Guys guys guys!
I think we love the mob mentality - beating people while dragging them doooooown the road and into alleys, and screaming. I think Kenyans love the mob mentality. Safaricom will have to wait until September 1 to reduce their prices, or a few days to September 1 whichever makes marketing sense.
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