@Chuks,

I will agree with you on the matter of certs without real hands on. I have worked with people who have tons of papers but nothing much to show apart from googling solutions and having 10 people chat with them to help them solve very minor problems.

On CISA and CISSP or even CISM, CISSP is still superior I have done CISA and CISM and when I looked at the CISSP material it was very detailed.

However, I want to say that when someone takes such courses like CISA, CISM or CISSP, what really matters according to me is the intention. Some people take these courses to add the list of their qualifications never to use them actively. Some do them to change careers from whatever they have been doing to become InfoSec experts. Based on these intentions you may find a CISA being better than a CISSP vice versa. This is because for example someone does CISA and decides to focus on pentesting for example - they will therefore exhaust material on pentesting over and above what CISA curiculum or CISSP curiculum can offer.



On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Gichuki John Chuksjonia <chuksjonia@gmail.com> wrote:
Personally i think a CISSP is much more better than a CISA, since he
see things the technical way and also Managerial way. The other day in
Ghana some CISA guys were doing security audit and they were asking
for files in a SUSE server that never exist. I don't know where they
heard that from, and as far as as am concerned, such info can be
Googled.

So such audits depends on what the customer wants and how knowing he
is, coz if you are concerned about something you will need it done. So
Audit Policies should always have a questionnaires when picking up
Security Vendors which helps to narrow down to the right auditing
firm.

The other day i was doing a penetration testing for a client who have
a set of servers with one Portal on the bonder. A big company had done
a pentest a month before but they client wasn't satisfied, so he
needed a real penetration test. So amazingly there was a plugin in the
webserver that gave me way to root since it had a sql injection on it
though blind. so i blindly uploaded code that would run arbitrary
commands and soon i had a bindshell. One thing a pentester would do is
try all means to get root, and see if he can read history of all the
users. So one thing i noticed is that if these guys had a good
security admin like they had specified, they should have seen that
Apache tried to bind and was already a privileged user. Secondly the
security administrator should have seen that guys miss to write their
passwords when sshing and leaving them in their history.

What amazed me was that this Company that had done the audit before
was a well proclaimed companies that was assigned with this same task
and failed to deliver. They have CISAs, CISSPs, CEHs, proffessionals
but Risk Part of the Assessment wasn't done.

So the question is, are the these Auditors just doing it for the
money, or just having so much fun leaving Gaping holes for the
clients, or is it that they just don't know what they are supposed to
look for?

Secondly do these papers(Certs) matter these days in the world of IT,
coz i have seen Bedroom coders who end being better than even guys who
went to school. Look-up at the Kenyan BDS developer, @kasina in
tweeter, that guy didn't learn C in school.

So what i think is real change as far such issues are concerned
otherwise, all organizations in Africa/Kenya are open to serious
compromise especially Govt Infrastructure.

Two Cents!



./Chuks

On 10/21/09, Walubengo J <jwalu@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I agree with Ikua/Preston.  CISA (Certified Information Systems Auditors)
> tend to have the big picture - and that's by design.  They dont drill down
> to specific vendor technologies - even though they know what to expect from
> such technologies.  Maybe a snapshot of the course content would help as
> given below :(ref: www.isaca.org)
>
> 1.IS Audit Process
> 2.IT Governance
> 3.Infrastructure Lifecycle Development
> 4.Protection of Information Assets.
> 5.Business Continuity and Disaster Mngt
>
> And so If am a CISA with a financial/accounting background but need to
> inspect a Cisco PIX firewall  I would be obliged to hire the expertise
> rather pretend to do it. Ofcourse, If am a CISA and a techie in that area
> (and there are many like that) I would just proceed and perform the
> inspection accordingly.
>
> The point is, the Security Ecosystem is so large and each professional in
> the Security field has an important role to play. Trying to establish who is
> better than the other would be like trying to see who btwn the following is
> better than the other: The Architect who designs the building or the
> Electrical/Civil/Structural Engineers who provide specialized services
> within the buildings...rather than begin to research for an answer, I would
> say it's really a misplaced question to ask.
>
> walu.
> nb: am a CISA but not an Accountant (so feel free to consider my views
> biased ;-)
>
> --- On Tue, 10/20/09, Preston <podera@k90ea.com> wrote:
>
> From: Preston <podera@k90ea.com>
> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] AUDIT OF IT
> To: "Skunkworks Forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>
> Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 2:09 PM
>
> If we start from the premise that you cannot be a master of all then
> Certified Penetration Testers, Systems Engineers, Network Vulnerabilty
> Experts can only handle their areas but only to the level their knowledge
> can allow with a scale (1 to 10) depending on whether you gained it from
> Karamaindo as a college or company. Also hands-on experience plays a greater
> part including organization culture.
>
> Depending on what has to be audited you need a team of experts!! in the
> areas being audited. The experts might not be the better than those being
> audited (Even on Financial Audits this is sometimes the case where junior
> auditors are sent to companies with least audit experience)but has to make
> an assurance that the areas being audited are meeting some standards both as
> defined by the company being audited or guided by international standards.
>
> What is also required is a team leader and that is where Certified
> Information Systems Auditors come in. These are from various backgrounds
> including teckies, financials etc..
>
> As Evans indicates One of the ISACA audit standards states that an auditor
> should use the right expert for the right audit process.  This is quite true
> for all professions. I realized this when putting up a modest palace (needed
> Architect, Quantity Engineer, Structural Engineer, Foreman Man, Plumber,
> Electrical Engieer, Loader and a host of other professions while the single
> process was Putting Up the Palace=IT Audit). In all of these a team work of
> different professions are required guided by a leader who has received
> certain qualification where CISA is one of them
>
>
> Preston
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 10/20/09, Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Evans Ikua <ikua.evans@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] AUDIT OF IT
>> To: "Skunkworks Forum" <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke>
>> Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 10:58 AM
>> I am a member of the local ISACA
>> chapter, but I will speak for myself.
>> Amolo, I dont agree with you. I recently spoke to a guy
>> from a local
>> shop of the big 5 audit (Finance) firms. He said they do IT
>> audits
>> alright. But they are more interested in seeing how far the
>> IT
>> infrastructure supports the financial figures that they are
>> reporting
>> on. You realize most of accounting nowadays is dependent on
>> IT, as is
>> most of business processes.
>>
>> But how does an accountant (majority of CISAs are) tell if
>> a DB has
>> been compromised if he does not understand the deep
>> workings of a DB?
>>
>> As I have said before, the best a CISA can do is to manage
>> the whole
>> process of the IT audit, but not to pretend to be what they
>> are not.
>> One of the ISACA audit standards states that an auditor
>> should use the
>> right expert for the right audit process. If you want to
>> audit a data
>> base, hire a data base expert. If you want to gauge
>> network
>> vulnerability, hire a vulnerability expert, and so on.
>> It's
>> professional negligence, which should attract hefty legal
>> penalties,
>> for a firm to conduct an IT audit, give a clean bill of
>> health, and
>> leave an organization at risk.
>>
>> Just wait till you hear someone taken to court for
>> professional negligence.
>>
>> Ikua
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Areba Collins <arebacollins@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Slunks! Whats so hard? IT audit, IT. Finance audit,
>> FINANCE.
>> >
>> > On 10/19/09, Paul Roy <roykoikai@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> am liking this... so far Chucks is leading :)
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Gichuki John
>> Chuksjonia <
>> >> chuksjonia@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> So their scope would be Financial Audit?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 10/19/09, Joshua Amolo <joshua.amolo@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> > If you check my mail again Chuks, i
>> talked about SCOPE
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Gichuki
>> John Chuksjonia <
>> >>> > chuksjonia@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> @Joshua, yah mistaken. What does an
>> IT Audit compose of. Because a
>> >>> >> Code Audit is part of IT Audit, tell
>> us, how can an Finance guy look
>> >>> >> for loop holes and bugs in a php code
>> if he doesn't even know how to
>> >>> >> write one?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On 10/19/09, Joshua Amolo <joshua.amolo@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >> > I dont think there is naything
>> wrong with a Finance guy auditing IT.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > The issue should be what's the
>> purpose of the audit. The purpose will
>> >>> >> give a
>> >>> >> > clear scope and the necessary
>> competence to undertake the the audit.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > For example if you were to audit
>> the financial sense of having a unit
>> >>> >> within
>> >>> >> > IT, you dont need another IT guy
>> to do this audit. If an auditor
>> >>> >> > wants
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > check conformity to certain
>> standards of your network for example,
>> >>> there
>> >>> >> are
>> >>> >> > very powerful tools a Finance
>> guy can use.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Cynthia I agree with you
>> sometimes you can endure very unnecessary
>> >>> >> questions
>> >>> >> > from an incompetent auditor I
>> remember a case where an auditor was
>> >>> >> checking
>> >>> >> > the competence of a hardware
>> technician and he asked him 'Does the
>> >>> >> computer
>> >>> >> > has a motherboard?', the
>> technician was so pissed he plainly just
>> >>> >> > said
>> >>> >> 'no
>> >>> >> > this one uses a fatherboard'
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:04 PM,
>> Joseph McDonald
>> >>> >> > <mcdonaldoj@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >> The confusion
>> started,because there are few companies that normally
>> >>> do
>> >>> >> >> independent IT audits.In
>> most cases the IT audit is done as an
>> >>> >> >> extension
>> >>> >> >> of
>> >>> >> >> the Financial audits hence
>> you will find many accountants rushed to
>> >>> do
>> >>> >> >> CISA.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Secondly in any organisation
>> the three P's are important
>> >>> >> (People,Products
>> >>> >> >> and Profits) systems and IT
>> for that matter,in most cases are
>> >>> enablers
>> >>> >> to
>> >>> >> >> help the people,to move the
>> products faster to the market and to
>> >>> >> increase
>> >>> >> >> efficiency hence profits.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> There are some IT audits
>> which finance people with can perform
>> >>> >> well.While
>> >>> >> >> there are some areas which
>> definately require some IT expertise for
>> >>> you
>> >>> >> do
>> >>> >> >> benefit fully from the said
>> audit.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Because a good audit should
>> give the auditee and the organisation
>> >>> ways
>> >>> >> for
>> >>> >> >> corrective and preventive
>> actions, and continual improvement.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:25
>> AM, Eric Mugo <kabugum@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>> A Finance person
>> auditing an IT infrastructure is like a Security
>> >>> >> >>> Assessor
>> >>> >> >>> auditing the end year
>> results of a company. I find it very ironical
>> >>> >> >>> and
>> >>> >> >>> old
>> >>> >> >>> school thinking from
>> those days when I.T used to Fall under Finance
>> >>> >> >>> department/Division.
>> Back then, the systems were simple and geared
>> >>> >> >>> towards
>> >>> >> >>> very specific tasks.
>> That is no longer the case nowadays.
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>> A company's systems
>> infrastructure has become very comples, look at
>> >>> a
>> >>> >> >>> situation where a
>> company has several DMZ,s each hosting different
>> >>> >> >>> systems,
>> >>> >> >>> several Server Farms,
>> Webhosting Facilities, a super big ERP....and
>> >>> >> then
>> >>> >> >>> you
>> >>> >> >>> bring an accountant to
>> do a security audit of the systems or rather
>> >>> >> >>> perform
>> >>> >> >>> an entire audit meaning
>> management, financial and security
>> >>> >> >>> audit....forgive
>> >>> >> >>> me but i find it plain
>> stupid!
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>> The positive thing is
>> that most companies are now realising the
>> >>> >> >>> importance
>> >>> >> >>> of a information
>> security role within their ranks. Once someone in
>> >>> >> charge
>> >>> >> >>> of
>> >>> >> >>> security is in place
>> then chances of being audited on Security by a
>> >>> >> CPA-K
>> >>> >> >>> are reduced because the
>> I.T guy will spot their incomptencies from
>> >>> >> >>> a
>> >>> >> mile
>> >>> >> >>> away...
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at
>> 8:33 AM, Edmund Okumu
>> >>> >> >>> <edmund.okumu@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>> Most Audit firms do
>> exactly that. It is not right at all to have a
>> >>> >> >>>> finance guy audit
>> IT. Let me state categorically that even if a
>> >>> >> finance
>> >>> >> >>>> person has taken the
>> CISA exams and passed, they still don't
>> >>> qualify
>> >>> >> to
>> >>> >> >>>> audit IT as IT audit
>> requires an IT Audit professional with some
>> >>> >> >>>> level
>> >>> >> >>>> of
>> >>> >> >>>> deep understanding
>> in the particular field of audit. Preferably
>> >>> >> >>>> the
>> >>> >> >>>> IT
>> >>> >> >>>> auditor should come
>> from a technical background e.g. Systems
>> >>> >> >>>> Development,
>> >>> >> >>>> Systems and Network
>> Administration or Database Administration.
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>> Such people employed
>> by audit firms usually right nasty audit
>> >>> reports
>> >>> >> >>>> based on findings
>> that do not satisfy the expectations of the
>> >>> >> >>>> forms
>> >>> >> >>>> downloaded from the
>> Internet. The audit reports therefore do not
>> >>> give
>> >>> >> a
>> >>> >> >>>> true
>> >>> >> >>>> reflection of the
>> particular IT department of interest.
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>> Can someone from
>> ISACA the kenyan chapter respond to this issue
>> >>> >> >>>> and
>> >>> >> tell
>> >>> >> >>>> us the way forward.
>> We need some level of regulation on this.
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009
>> at 6:07 PM, Cynthia Wahome
>> >>> >> >>>> <cwahome@jambo.co.ke>wrote:
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>> Dear All
>> >>> >> >>>>> Let me get your
>> thoughts on this.
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>> Is it right for
>> a Finance guy to come and do an audit to an IT
>> >>> >> >>>>> department
>> >>> >> >>>>> yet the Finance
>> guy has no clue about IT.
>> >>> >> >>>>> I wont name the
>> audit firm here but i wonder,when they go to the
>> >>> net
>> >>> >> >>>>> and
>> >>> >> >>>>> download a form
>> then they come and ask you silly questions makes
>> >>> me
>> >>> >> >>>>> question them
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>> People my
>> question is this
>> >>> >> >>>>> Who should do an
>> IT audit? Finance People? or IT People
>> >>> >> >>>>> I stand to be
>> corrected
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> >>> >> >>>>> This message has
>> been scanned for viruses and
>> >>> >> >>>>> dangerous
>> content by Jambo MailScanner, and is
>> >>> >> >>>>> believed to be
>> clean.
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------
>> >>> >> >>>>> "easy access to
>> the world"
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >> >>>>> Skunkworks
>> mailing list
>> >>> >> >>>>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke
>> >>> >> >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks
>> >>> >> >>>>> ------------
>> >>> >> >>>>> Skunkworks
>> Rules
>> >>> >> >>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94
>> >>> >> >>>>> ------------
>> >>> >> >>>>> Other services @
>> http://my.co.ke
>> >>> >> >>>>> Other lists
>> >>> >> >>>>> -------------
>> >>> >> >>>>> Announce:
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce
>> >>> >> >>>>> Science:
>> >>> >> >>>>>  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science
>> >>> >> >>>>> kazi:
>> >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
>> >>> >> >>>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>> --
>> >>> >> >>>> Edmund C. O. Okumu
>> >>> >> >>>> P.O Box 8490-00200,
>> >>> >> >>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>> >>> >> >>>> TEL: 254-721-734935
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >> >>>> Skunkworks mailing
>> list
>> >>> >> >>>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke
>> >>> >> >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks
>> >>> >> >>>> ------------
>> >>> >> >>>> Skunkworks Rules
>> >>> >> >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94
>> >>> >> >>>> ------------
>> >>> >> >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke
>> >>> >> >>>> Other lists
>> >>> >> >>>> -------------
>> >>> >> >>>> Announce:
>> >>> >> >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce
>> >>> >> >>>> Science:
>> >>> >> >>>>  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science
>> >>> >> >>>> kazi:
>> >>> >> >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
>> >>> >> >>>>
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >> >>> Skunkworks mailing list
>> >>> >> >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke
>> >>> >> >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks
>> >>> >> >>> ------------
>> >>> >> >>> Skunkworks Rules
>> >>> >> >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94
>> >>> >> >>> ------------
>> >>> >> >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke
>> >>> >> >>> Other lists
>> >>> >> >>> -------------
>> >>> >> >>> Announce:
>> >>> >> >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce
>> >>> >> >>> Science:
>> >>> >> >>>  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science
>> >>> >> >>> kazi:
>> >>> >> >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>
>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >> >> Skunkworks mailing list
>> >>> >> >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke
>> >>> >> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks
>> >>> >> >> ------------
>> >>> >> >> Skunkworks Rules
>> >>> >> >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94
>> >>> >> >> ------------
>> >>> >> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke
>> >>> >> >> Other lists
>> >>> >> >> -------------
>> >>> >> >> Announce:
>> >>> >> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce
>> >>> >> >> Science:  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science
>> >>> >> >> kazi:
>> >>> >> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > --
>> >>> >> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> >> > Joshua Amolo
>> >>> >> > Cell: +254 720 263308/+255 783
>> 060052
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Managing IT people is like
>> herding cats
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> --
>> >>> >> --
>> >>> >> Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H ,
>> C.P.T.P, O.S.C.P
>> >>> >> I.T Security Analyst and Penetration
>> Tester
>> >>> >> infosigmer@inbox.com
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> {FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/
>> >>> >> http://nspkenya.blogspot.com/
>> >>> >> http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/
>> >>> >>
>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >> Skunkworks mailing list
>> >>> >> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke
>> >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks
>> >>> >> ------------
>> >>> >> Skunkworks Rules
>> >>> >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94
>> >>> >> ------------
>> >>> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke
>> >>> >> Other lists
>> >>> >> -------------
>> >>> >> Announce:
>> >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce
>> >>> >> Science:  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science
>> >>> >> kazi:     http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> > Joshua Amolo
>> >>> > Cell: +254 720 263308/+255 783 060052
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Managing IT people is like herding cats
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> --
>> >>>  Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H , C.P.T.P,
>> O.S.C.P
>> >>> I.T Security Analyst and Penetration Tester
>> >>> infosigmer@inbox.com
>> >>>
>> >>> {FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/
>> >>> http://nspkenya.blogspot.com/
>> >>> http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/
>> >>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Skunkworks mailing list
>> >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke
>> >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks
>> >>> ------------
>> >>> Skunkworks Rules
>> >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94
>> >>> ------------
>> >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke
>> >>> Other lists
>> >>> -------------
>> >>> Announce:
>> >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce
>> >>> Science:  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science
>> >>> kazi:     http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork,
>> a bit of
>> >> luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of
>> patience."
>> >>
>> >> Roy.
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Skunkworks mailing list
>> > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke
>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks
>> > ------------
>> > Skunkworks Rules
>> > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94
>> > ------------
>> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke
>> > Other lists
>> > -------------
>> > Announce:
>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce
>> > Science:  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science
>> > kazi:     http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Skunkworks mailing list
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>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks
>> ------------
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>> ------------
>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke
>> Other lists
>> -------------
>> Announce:
>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce
>> Science:  http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science
>> kazi:     http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
>>
>
>
>
>


--
--
Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H , C.P.T.P, O.S.C.P
I.T Security Analyst and Penetration Tester
infosigmer@inbox.com

{FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/
http://nspkenya.blogspot.com/
http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/
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--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Joshua Amolo
Cell: +254 720 263308/+255 783 060052


Managing IT people is like herding cats