Right on the head Phares, I was holding to comment on this... Am sorry to the environmentalist on the forum .. I do support renewable energy, but again industrialized by 2030 .. forget it if we have to build wind farms etc its expensive ... the way I see it we have to burn our coal its cheaper ... Germany and USA have an installed capacity of Wind power of 25K Mw and 23K mw and that is just a small percentage, so this tell you the small amount from our coal generation should not do that much harm to our envilonment. I think since we do not have the money to install renewable energy, we should use coal, USA and the other developed world should convert to wind and solar... thus we have a balance... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power 2009/7/28 Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com>
I think guys are panicking about the environment... We have an installed capacity of something close to 1,000 MW... A single coal plant can easily meet this demand... Now. We are thinking of the environment? China is building two coal plants daily... Meanwhile, we are building wind farms? OK, I know I sound the cynic. Kenya has *very low* electricity penetration. We need upwards of 10,000 MW if we are to get industrialized.
Some math: Now that we have fibre and are aiming to be the data hub of the region... How much power does your average 48 U rack (fully stacked) with cooling etc consume? Let's give a lower estimate of 10,000W. Say each datacentre has around 50 racks... Thats 500,000w, or .5MW, per datacentre... These are very conservative and low estimates... this growth is on the datacentre only...Consider this; the datacentre is being fed by data from a PC. This PC has energy requirements etc etc. We have roughly 500,000 households in Nairobi (factoring in slums etc). If we aim for this households to develop, these households all have energy needs. They will all get Televisions, Iron's, water heaters, radios, washing machines etc etc. Industry to develop. We need energy.
The problem I have with the math being done here is that it's not factoring that we have low electricity penetration, and some of the highest power rates. Now, someone pointed out that Solar costs 7$ per installed watt... Let's say we aim for Kenya to have 1 GW of installed capacity... That's 7*8*1b = 56 B USD to have 1 GW... Wind for 300MW costs in excess of 500m pounds... We as a country cannot raise this amounts.... Further from this, technology exists to clean up coal... http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1245929522.95/ The coal is lying idle, the plants are cheaper to setup, per watt.
Now the US is responsible for 25% of the worlds coal utility and 40% of CO2 emissions... The way I see it, Kenya is going to experience flooding etc etc whether or not we clean up shop. We might as well have an economy to handle it...
Further from this, the economy has to be able to sustain Nuclear. We have to have the demand. If our planning is based on "the guys in the village don't need and will never need power", there is a big problem. If all these guys are incorporated fully into the national grid, our power demand will increase exponentially... We need the equivalent of fibre (lots of capacity cheap) for electricity, if we are to benefit... Final thing, go to a village, give them a laptop, the dad does not know how to use it... he'll sell it off and buy a TV. Practical. Recently we donated some soccer balls in the village where I come from. The folks sold them off... kids never did get to play with them...
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Areba Collins <arebacollins@gmail.com>wrote:
When it comes to energy, kenya has no excuse. 1050 mw is nothing. The problem is the supply chain. Too many middle men, and monopolistic tendencies. Which country hires goons to generate power using diesel generators and sells not to the consumers, but to someone that sells to the consumers. . . . .
sorry, wrong and mismatched facts (Error 101). 500, 000 people were exposed to the chemical fallout while deaths are estimated in the range of 20,
On 7/28/09, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: 000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster 2009/7/28 Philip Musyoki <pmusyoki@gmail.com>
"Killed a million?" I always thought there were lesser casualties that a million.
On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 7:00 AM, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote:
Nuclear energy is quite unsafe, especially with the impunity and
neglect
that we have in the country. Reminds me of that Indian Bhopal chemical blast that killed a million. 2009/7/27 Njoroge Tito <titonjoroge@gmail.com>
My thoughts...
Coal,diesel, water.. not the future.
i always ask myself this though - what would it take to have nuclear power in Kenya? Do we have enough demand? Do we have enough capacity
to
manage without creating "hiroshima"s? Do we have the funds/funding to get it? Dont we have uranium deposits somewhere? Egypt will always beat us at manufacturing due to low power prices. We cannot constantly rely on poor rains for power.
Anyway, future is in renewable sources. i.e solar esp with global warming, wind. I like the Ngong Hills wind thing + the one in Turkana. I always hope that we shall frog jump the "nuclear" stage to renewable sources, same way we jumped the landlines and credit cards to mobile phones and Mpesa.
Tito.
2009/7/27 Mark Mwangi <mwangy@gmail.com>
we dont have to rely on coal, or diesel or any other fossil fuel. . . > .. there is currently alot of untapped wind energy that is free, clean > and renewable. . . .all the coal and diesel is used to produce power > anyway so we might as well use wind, tidal and solar as energy > sources. .. . . the technology is there what isn't is the profit that > goes into maintanance and thats why the goverment is armtwisted by > multinationals not to develop alternative sources. . . . . > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Phares Kariuki<pkariuki@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I agree, think of the environment. However. Look at this practically. > > China, India, US etc, are currently burning loads of coal. Its cheap. > > We have no energy. We are burning diesel. We are still polluting, > > while driving up global energy pricing and paying a premium for the > > energy. Sad thing is that you need to have a large scale economy to > > consider nuclear. We cant get there without enough energy. There is > > clean coal technology. Reduces the footprint. We can plant trees. The > > situation though is untenable... > > > > On 7/27/09, Dennis Kioko <dmbuvi@gmail.com> wrote: > >> still it doesnt beat burning down the mau and other forests. And > according > >> to xkcd.com , everything else is getting cooler, except the > environment > >> which we completely f*ed up. 2009/7/27 Peter Karunyu < > pkarunyu@gmail.com> > >> > >>> ? > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:21 PM, Phares Kariuki < pkariuki@gmail.com > >wrote: > >>> > >>>> In the same vein... KDN have moved to solar > >>>> > http://afromusing.com/2009/07/26/kenya-data-networks-opts-for-solar-energy/ > >>>> > >>>> We may have our first undersea fibre optic cable, but we should > >>>> now > be > >>>> praying that .go.ke starts up a coal plant which is (one of, if > not the) > >>>> cheapest sources of electricity. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Bernard Mwagiru > >>>> <bmwagiru@gmail.com>wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> 80,000?!!! > >>>>> The fiber that landed will be used as backhaul to ISPs that had > relied > >>>>> on VSAT. > >>>>> Calculate the number of internet users (including GPRS/EDGE/3G > mobile > >>>>> users) and you should find a huge number.... > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 5:04 PM, ndungu stephen < > >>>>> ndungustephen@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> <see attached image> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Is this true ? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Study estimates that we may have only 80k home users - and that > >>>>>> 3 > fibre > >>>>>> optic cables may be an over supply.. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But then again - we can sell... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Skunkworks mailing list > >>>>>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >>>>>> Other lists > >>>>>> ------------- > >>>>>> Announce: > >>>>>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce > >>>>>> Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science > >>>>>> kazi: > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Skunkworks mailing list > >>>>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >>>>> Other lists > >>>>> ------------- > >>>>> Announce: > >>>>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce > >>>>> Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science > >>>>> kazi: > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> With Regards, > >>>> > >>>> Phares Kariuki > >>>> > >>>> | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | > Skype: > >>>> kariukiphares | > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Skunkworks mailing list > >>>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >>>> Other lists > >>>> ------------- > >>>> Announce: > >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce > >>>> Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science > >>>> kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Skunkworks mailing list > >>> Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke > >>> Other lists > >>> ------------- > >>> Announce: > >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce > >>> Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science > >>> kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> with Regards: > >> Owning an iphone in Kenya is a bargain. Find out how at my blog:. > >> http://gramware.blogspot.com > >> > > > > > > -- > > With Regards, > > > > Phares Kariuki > > > > | T: +254 734 810 802 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | > > Skype: kariukiphares | > > _______________________________________________ > > Skunkworks mailing list > > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > > Other lists > > ------------- > > Announce: > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce > > Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science > > kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Mark Mwangi > > http://mwangy.wordpress.com > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > Other lists > ------------- > Announce: > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce > Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science > kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >
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Collins Areba Omwoyo +254 735 824872 / +254 720 516758 arebacollins[at]gmail[dot]com _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general
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