You might have seen this if you are also on the KICTANET list. Might be worth crystallizing some of this discussion for them. Worth even 15k bob (nb: I have zero affiliation with COFEK) http://www.cofek.co.ke/index.php/news-and-media/1269-cofek-announces-open-wr... On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 11:41 AM Stephen Munguti via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
as mentioned ealrier,
- There is a pricing problem which either leads to undercutting or over pricing, both of them a result of a lack of long term strategies, implementation failure and a general apathy for understanding the target and potential markets. - There is a human resource problem because of our greedy (its our turn to eat culture) and underhand thinking. We are most likely to steal and sink the company with little thought to future generations. To cover the stealing we push prices to the customer until it reaches a point they are unable to afford. At this point we create a black market and continue eating.
if you under price (or rob the company dry), you are unable to constantly reinvest in your network and when eventually you wake up and smell the coffee, the technology will have leaped another level, and catching up will be equivalent to starting a new business. Casing point RVR, YU, Kenya refineries, and the list continues
On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 10:39 AM, Peter Osotsi via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
@brian, the operators tried to use unorthodox means to price Safaricom out of the Kenyan market, but Saf outwitted the rest by improving on the QoS, providing reliable 3g countrywide while revamping and marketing MPesa.
How much did YU make by offering calls at a shilling? They had to close shop. Actually the Kenyan calling prices are among the lowest on the globe. Below the safaricom price level, operators will start experiencing negative returns on their investment.
PO On Jul 15, 2015 7:14 AM, "simon njoroge via skunkworks" < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
@ Brian,
The network charging cheaper calls from Orange to Safaricom what profit margins did they report they last financial year?
regards
On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Brian L via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
@Edward, Do you mean another country in Africa or globally?
Safaricom has done its best to be where it is right now, despite the number of cases of NDA's it has manipulated (no evidence, just speculation).
Other providers Kencell was to slow to implement per second billing, Celtel focusing on postpaid products without proper billing and addressing systems in Kenya, Zain well that was just a major blunder and Airtel aiming arrows at anything that moves. Orange is just but a fire igniter.
Kenya still deserves better rates and CA has done everything in it's mandate to reduce certain charges but why does a call from Safcom to Safcom still cost more than a call from Orange to Safcom?
Let me not even go onto data (sic) rates.
On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 2:02 AM, ANTONY NDUNG'U via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
@Peter, I can't add more to your analysis of the big foreign companies in Africa. I know of a guy who was a Technical manager in one of the multinationals based in a certain country in Africa whose salary was paid in 3 different countries as a way to avoid tax, whereas he would only spend about 3 months out of his base station to the other countries. Out of curiosity I asked him what about the top executives, of-course he was not one of them and he told me the very senior management have salaries paid to private companies in countries which attract lesser corporate tax among other crazy things. The only CSR I know that corporate company did was to support a certain local club in that country, buying t-shirts and stuff. To say they are thieves is just an understatement, they thrive on corruption just to appear on top corporate magazines and increase their share prices internationally and are in the process of depleting Africa of her resources. On the issue of rates most MTN/ other networks countries would pay maybe 2-4 times the charges paid by Safaricom subscribers.
Tony
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Anthony Lenya via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
Fellows,
Are we saying that the rates are competitive because of dominance by a given player or for lack of competition?
Rgds.
Anthony
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 6:53 PM, Edward Mayaka via skunkworks < skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
> @ Peter. I concur. I dont know any country with such competitive > rates. > > Regards > Edward > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Peter Osotsi via skunkworks < > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: > >> From my small knowledge from my globetrotters, Kenyan rates are >> very competitive. I have friends all over and the verdict is we should feel >> blessed we enjoy very low telco rates. Does anyone know sending a text >> message to Uganda is so expensive, or even calling from there? >> >> We should rejoice while the party lasts. >> >> PO >> On Jul 13, 2015 3:27 PM, "Stephen Munguti via skunkworks" < >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: >> >>> @dennis, >>> >>> I am in the process of reading the article, but maybe we can >>> compare voice, sms and data charges across africa and in the world as a >>> whole >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Dennis Kioko via skunkworks < >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: >>> >>>> I propose we start a separate thread on GoK's vs Private Sector >>>> approach to taxation. >>>> >>>> The Economist has also weighed in on the Safaricom - Airtel >>>> battle on regulation. It also has a small, nice graph showing how >>>> Safaricom's returns are above global industry average >>>> http://www.economist.com/news/business/21657378-two-african-business-giants-... >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, 13 July 2015, Isaac Kiplagat via skunkworks < >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Stephen, >>>>> >>>>> It is fact that many companies have engineered a model of >>>>> evading taxes, *Tusemezane tukubaliane. *I don't have a moral >>>>> right to discuss who and how this is done in this forum. The root cause >>>>> for this is; taxes are too high in this country. So should we stiffen rules >>>>> for taxes or reduce rates and encourage tax payers. >>>>> Rgds, >>>>> Isaac Kiplagat >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 13 July 2015 at 13:05, Stephen Munguti <kamitu.sm@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We need to stop trading accusations that we cannot verify, if >>>>>> someone has avoided tax, we need proof, if someone has abused dominance we >>>>>> need proof. Otherwise everything is hearsay. Of course this is not helped >>>>>> by the constant revelations that our multinational and local auditing firms >>>>>> are helping management cook books. >>>>>> >>>>>> I never complain about politics and the reason is that these >>>>>> people were elected by the masses, so they are a mirror to the Kenyan >>>>>> population. By studying our politicians we can make general statements >>>>>> >>>>>> As Kenyans we need to really critically analyze what we are >>>>>> saying and make sure we understand it. The era of roadside utterances and >>>>>> decisions should be over. >>>>>> >>>>>> Engineering companies are dying because >>>>>> >>>>>> - Nobody understands the importance of R&D, therefore >>>>>> little investment is done which means we will always be lagging to the >>>>>> other developed nations in most technologies. >>>>>> - There is a pricing problem which either leads to >>>>>> undercutting or over pricing, both of them a result of a lack of long term >>>>>> strategies, implementation failure and a general apathy for understanding >>>>>> the target and potential markets. >>>>>> - There is a human resource problem because of our greedy >>>>>> (its our turn to eat culture) and underhand thinking. We are most likely to >>>>>> steal and sink the company with little thought to future generations. To >>>>>> cover the stealing we push prices to the customer until it reaches a point >>>>>> they are unable to afford. At this point we create a black market and >>>>>> continue eating. >>>>>> - There is a lack of proper remuneration structure meaning >>>>>> a constant brain drain is being experienced >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Lets face it we are more marketing than engineering, and in >>>>>> marketing its all about perception. And this Airtel vs Safaricom fight is >>>>>> all about perception. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kudos to anyone in the engineering industry who is able to make >>>>>> money and contribute to our tax burden and economic growth. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Isaac Kiplagat via skunkworks >>>>>> <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Strongly supported opinion Peter and I hope all stakeholders >>>>>>> will have a glimpse of this and comprehend it rationally. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards,Isaac >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 13 July 2015 at 10:04, Thuo Wilson via skunkworks < >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11 July 2015 at 13:48, Peter Osotsi via skunkworks < >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I will respond both an an economist, then as a tech person, >>>>>>>>> since im both. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One, the size of the Kenyan market is small. We should >>>>>>>>> encourage more companies to grow big and fight it ugly in the international >>>>>>>>> arena. Like Equity, Family Bank, Seven Seas, Symphony, etc, etc, so that >>>>>>>>> our economy can grow in size. Small people focus on small problems. >>>>>>>>> Safaricom is a small player in Africa, its not even a quarter of MTN. So >>>>>>>>> when I see a government breaking down a small company, I get sad. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As an entrepreneur, year in year out we have invested such >>>>>>>>> that I, particularly, have nothing financially to talk of, because by >>>>>>>>> investing, jobs are created. I want to see our company grow. I take nothing >>>>>>>>> home hoping that one day we will be a big regional player. All my efforts >>>>>>>>> are geared on the bigger picture, a large innovative organization able to >>>>>>>>> support the economy, and reward our staff and partners for their loyalty. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As all of us already know, all the telecoms providers apart >>>>>>>>> from don't declare profits, apart from Safaricom. Airtel has been sold >>>>>>>>> numerous times, has never declared a profit, yet it was a bigger company >>>>>>>>> than Safaricom. The French and Indians have figured out how to make money >>>>>>>>> without declaring profits, look, Telkom Kenya has been fraudulently loosing >>>>>>>>> government shares (our shares) through their partner Orange so that TKL can >>>>>>>>> be sold entirely as a french operation. They look east and west, while we >>>>>>>>> look south, they steal from us. >>>>>>>>> Look at what Indians did to KDN before selling to Liquid >>>>>>>>> Telecom. These companies are here to steal and not to grow Kenya. If they >>>>>>>>> don't pay taxes like other companies, if they don't support the economy by >>>>>>>>> declaring profits (by paying expatriate staff reasonably thereby having >>>>>>>>> something for the locals), if they don't support the economy by >>>>>>>>> continuously investing and training personnel, if they keep paying >>>>>>>>> handsomely the expatriates who know nothing about the local market and >>>>>>>>> underpay Kenyans, let them close down. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I THREW my lovely Airtel line when I realized: >>>>>>>>> 1. I keep on loosing data bundles >>>>>>>>> 2. Funny machines keep calling me at night so that im in >>>>>>>>> trouble with my wife >>>>>>>>> 3. Their offers begin but disappear without notice, the >>>>>>>>> price increasing without notice >>>>>>>>> 4. Most of the areas I travel to have no clear signal >>>>>>>>> 5. MPesa is convenient, I can save the day for my relative >>>>>>>>> anywhere in this country, I too can be saved while in trouble without >>>>>>>>> sweating. >>>>>>>>> 6. Data is a problem, I never know which plan I will be on >>>>>>>>> 7. Airtel Money is free, but is there guarantee that the >>>>>>>>> services will remain free for the foreseeable future? When will the free >>>>>>>>> offer end? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Do Kenyans really value "Free" or do they want some freedom? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for Orange Telkom, advertising sells. But when you >>>>>>>>> advertise a product and kill it the next month its as bad as it can get. I >>>>>>>>> kept being called by our clients that had bought black box machines, very >>>>>>>>> many of them. People who had invested in the CDMA because their areas of >>>>>>>>> operation are underserved by Telkom Kenya. We did expensive PBX solutions, >>>>>>>>> they invested in airtime to keep their investments running. Without >>>>>>>>> reasonable and sufficient notice, Telkom Orange killed the service. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> They have the fastest internet with a lot of gaps, across >>>>>>>>> the country. But who knows? If the Skunks don't know, pray heaven who else >>>>>>>>> knows? The experience should be seamless as nothing short of that will >>>>>>>>> backfire. Orange money is literary non existent, apart from the "Money" >>>>>>>>> bit, I don't know where a single Orange Money agent can be found. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If all women or men are avoiding you, however handsome or >>>>>>>>> beautiful you are, the solution will definitely be in the mirror. No one >>>>>>>>> should be forced to be with the person they don't love. I'm sorry to say >>>>>>>>> this, but Kenyans distaste these companies until the day they will know how >>>>>>>>> to woo us. Kenyans are peculiar, thats why Barack Obama is the president of >>>>>>>>> the United States of America. We know what works for us, and we go for it, >>>>>>>>> however costly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let me tell you a story. I love locomotives, im very much in >>>>>>>>> love with the railway. In fact im very excited with the SGR. Once in a >>>>>>>>> while I make a deliberate attempt to use the trains, and in the many >>>>>>>>> decades I have been an adult, I keep going there to experience the ride. >>>>>>>>> Let me just say those RVR things are nothing more than expensive rolling >>>>>>>>> stock, they charge high, the service extremely poor, the trains are always >>>>>>>>> very late or never leave at all. Or they brake down along the way. When I >>>>>>>>> was young and KR was a government service, everything was beautiful. I >>>>>>>>> lived near a railway halt, it was always rosy, until RVR came. That's how >>>>>>>>> Kenya Railways was killed, by selling it to expatriates. See, KR has no >>>>>>>>> competitors, yet it cant declare a profit. Thats why I have a problem with >>>>>>>>> that law. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And so even if Safaricom is broken down, and with these >>>>>>>>> expatriates that have learned the art of tax avoidance, and loss making, >>>>>>>>> and poor remuneration of locals, we will always bleed our income. At least >>>>>>>>> the contribution of Safaricom is there for everyone to see. I rest my case, >>>>>>>>> as a layman. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You read my mind and did it in better english :). SAFARICOM >>>>>>>> should not be intimidated and should not be declared whatever they want. >>>>>>>> SAFcom though their service isn't 100% good are 50times >>>>>>>> better than "*these*" others. Safcom should not be punished >>>>>>>> for their success while in-efficiency thrive in other telcos. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kind Regards, >>>>>>>> Wilson./ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Isaac Kiplagat. KIP® >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>>>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>>>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>>>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>>>>> ------------ >>>>>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>> Stephen Munguti. >>>>>> >>>>>> +254720425104 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Isaac Kiplagat. KIP® >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> with Regards: >>>> >>>> blog.denniskioko.com <http://www.denniskioko.com/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> skunkworks mailing list >>>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>>> ------------ >>>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>>> ------------ >>>> >>>> Skunkworks Rules >>>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>>> ------------ >>>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Stephen Munguti. >>> >>> +254720425104 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> skunkworks mailing list >>> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >>> ------------ >>> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> ------------ >>> >>> Skunkworks Rules >>> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >>> ------------ >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> skunkworks mailing list >> skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke >> ------------ >> List info, subscribe/unsubscribe >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> ------------ >> >> Skunkworks Rules >> http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 >> ------------ >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> > > > _______________________________________________ > skunkworks mailing list > skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke > ------------ > List info, subscribe/unsubscribe > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > ------------ > > Skunkworks Rules > http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 > ------------ > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >
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