@Phares- By national debt I meant how much we owe as a country to other external sources. Whether you take a personal loan or not, rich or poor, you still pay for your national debt. IMF/WB has been known to entice countries to taking cheap loans because they know their irresponsible leaders would not pay back in full. Therefore like all other banks, they own you eventually and by extension US owns you and your whole clan for generations to come. That way they can manipulate and take your country's resources as they wish. It all boils down to slavery/colonisation or how ever you concieve it.

@Wachira - I will reiterate this. INTERESTS, INTERESTS, INTERESTS!!
There is no money in renewable energy sources, at least not yet.

But there is money in maintaining the nuclear plants, security for the nuclear plants, causing panic about the plants etc. Thats the same reason why JP Morgan decided to fund Edison and dropped Nikola Tesla, otherwise we could be having free energy, who knows


On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Samuel Wachira <wachirasam@gmail.com> wrote:
ati nuclear power?
While we have not exhausted our natural reserves for energy generation!
And while Germany are planning to phase theirs out?
Do we even know how to get rid of the nuclear waste? Without dumping it off the Somalia coast.
We cannot even get rid of our electronic waste correctly.

There are misguided people in high places..

Back to topic, i have been involved in some of these Gov projects mentioned in this thread. What i see is that the drivers of these projects are always expecting something for themselves.... something that most local entrepreneurs cannot afford.. This is what china is doing.. http://www.fpif.org/reports/china_in_africa_its_still_the_governance_stupid
for the west, the colonialism is still on... How do you expect countries like Britain, with a growth rate of 0.5% make money? http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=192



./Sam




On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:36 AM, [ Brainiac ] <arebacollins@gmail.com> wrote:
Exactly @ phares, like the huge tens of billions we are soon going to owe china for a brand new Nuclear Power station. /:-(


On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
@Kahugu

National debt will be a constant if there is prudent use of the credit facility... We should only ask for loans when we *need* to... 

It's like what happened with the Mortgage Crisis in the US... Everyone blamed the bank, but the individual who took the loan should have ensured that he can pay, when he took the loan... Don't blame the world bank for increasing debt, blame the finance minister for silly fiscal policy. 


On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Kahugu Isaac <ikahugu@gmail.com> wrote:
Aki i totally agree with you. I believe we have local capacity both
financial and technical to undertake such a project. The main issue is
about interests. I suspect Wb main agenda is to increase our national
debt, they have been at it again since 2003 and the idea is to have
next few generations to work for them. As for google its hard to tell
but am sure its one of their long term strategic moves.
Question is, do we as Kenyans have long term plans for our country?

On 6/2/11, aki <aki275@gmail.com> wrote:
> @Phares, I spent the better part of last night looking into my question i.e
> why govts borrow from World Bank and not local banks and the nearest answers
> I came across is the fact that govts borrowing from the World Bank do so
> below market rates as the primary reason. While kenyans are supposed to
> borrow from commercial banks at 14%-19%, it is possible that the World Bank
> lends at 4%-7% to the kenyan govt and therefore opens the system to monetary
> manipulation. I had no idea this is how deep we would end up on a simple
> thread as this one.
>
> This is probably why you do not see the digitization project sponsered by
> Kenya Commercial Bank, Barclays, Stanbic and the rest. There is nothing
> stopping the govt from using local banks to setup the e-govt digitization
> projects. However, what has been clearly demontsrated by the KICTB ( not
> sure if they processed the digitization project ) is the complete lack of
> confidence in our BPO and developer/software local market. And this is
> exactly what I've been writing all along. As long as we have to "depend" on
> external loans, they will have pre-conditions that no company locally can
> fullfill. The only pre-conditions a local company can fullfil are e.g.
> supply of hardware.
>
> In closing, I still stand by my views that while WB/Google/KE e-govt is a
> good idea, let those who were involved never use the words like innovation
> to preach what can be done to develop a high tech sector. Maybe if we look
> closely at NASA, one may understand what we really want to do in terms of
> incubation, funds injections by govt, etc.
>
> So we are basically back to square one, which is : empty rhetoric, VCs can
> save us, Brokers from the WB and many others who are inter-connected. Why
> did the e-Govt not use the e-govt process to spur local growth of high tech
> companies?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Phares Kariuki <pkariuki@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> @Aki
>>
>> Especially in an economy that's developing like ours, it's not prudent for
>> the government to take loans from the local banks. We have a shortage of
>> credit, if the government borrows it's more attractive than the mwananchi.
>> Reduce loans available to the citizen, and make it more expensive to get
>> the
>> same debt for both SME's and individuals...
>>
>> And the government does borrow from local banks, when it won't affect the
>> credit available to the nation. The reason mortgages etc are becoming more
>> pervasive is because the banks, to bolster their business are forced to
>> talk
>> to the individual. We now have banks offering pasha loans etc....
>>
>> At the end of the day, the Government borrowing from the local economy
>> stunts other sectors of the economy that depend on that credit.
>>
>> My problem with World Bank funding is not the funding itself, it's that
>> historically, the funds were misused....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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With Regards,

Phares Kariuki

| T: +254 720 406 093 | E: pkariuki@gmail.com | Twitter: kaboro | Skype: kariukiphares | B: http://www.kaboro.com/ |

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