Certification - if this is what 'the hiring guys' need to see to give my firm the job- is ok. I hope the only qualifications you will ask for in order to sit for the certification is either a birth cert or a national ID/ passport to prove he/she is human. There we are in tandem *_______________________________________________________________ We must Keep on, * On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 9:47 AM, wesley kirinya <kiriinya2000@yahoo.com>wrote:
Paul,
Indeed the basics have to be set. I would like to echo what a couple of other listers have suggested which is to have this weakness sorted out at the university level. The content of the certification may be embedded into the university course... However this brings another problem of how many potential Kenyan software developers who might not make it to university due to the ridiculous cut-off points. 8~(
Regarding specialization... IMO this will happen as the industry grows (at it's natural pace of demand & supply). I see more specialization now than 5 years ago. Most of the budding software developers are very resourceful and eager to learn. Passion is key as other listers put it. I think most of the software companies in Kenya that have been founded in Kenya (not an extension of established international software companies) are in the start-up stage or just emerging from this stage. They're yet to get to a point of mature processes, and without these mature processes it's difficult to have specialization in place. Based on that I will share one of my experiences on how an idea was transformed into a product while building a larger team & a path to specialization:
One of the software projects I've worked on involves a mobile backup solution. In the beginning I had to advice and design everything: From the various mobile platforms & SIM software, to the servers running from Amazon and Google. However the project has matured more and processes are being put in place. It is much easier to get more specialized developers into the team now. It is difficult to find them but if we get a passionate, self driven individual, we train and offer them a part of the returns of the business so that they feel like they're part of the company. This is one way to keep great software developers whom we've spent resources in naturing.
O_O
------------------------------ *From:* Paul Kukubo <pkukubo@ict.go.ke>
*To:* Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke> *Cc:* alewela <alewela@ict.go.ke> *Sent:* Monday, February 13, 2012 4:25 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Skunkworks] KICTB "Chipuka": a new software, certification program for entry level developers
Listers
There is a healthy debate going on here and actually the coments are all being sent through to our project team. Thank you all for the candid comments. This forum is represents crucial stakeholders of this project.
Some people feel certification is a waste of time because good developers are always proven in action. Others feel that this is an important initiative because they have faced the challenges of poor execution.
Let me share the sentiments we have. Our research suggests we have substantial skills gaps. Many Employers feel we have to fix the basics. Most of the better software developers feel there is no need for this. I also notice a strand of discussion that is about self drive.
I wonder, what does the evidence out there suggest? Are our software developers cutting their teeth on writing machine code, writing software to operate hardware? extending operating system functionality? writing large scale systems? If you have some case studies out there, kindly share. We are looking for case studies of large software teams working together with some specialization?
The packaged software business globally is 300 Billion USD odd, according to IDC. This excludes the downloadable apps business and bespoke software developer business done on a client need basis., much of it done on open source platforms, a huge business too.
Asante. Paul Kukubo CEO, Kenya ICT Board
On Monday, February 13, 2012, Paul Roy <roykoikai@gmail.com> wrote:
Would someone record this and share? I guess most folks like me will not be in a position to watch this program during work time.
I agree with Josh - I graduated from a local university in Kenya 3 of my colleagues joined Microsoft straight as SDEs/SDETs without any experience nor certification (except college & side projects) and strong passion for developing. The recruitment process was pretty rigorous and focused mostly on problem solving, decent coding, and underlying knowledge of computer science fundermentals. Despite graduating from a local univeristy today they all work on projects with the Stanfords, CMUs, MITs etc and are doing great.
So I dont believe in being any inferior in skills/knowlege to the MITs of this world. Its all about passion for developing software that will take you to greater heights.
regards, R. On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Paul Kukubo <pkukubo@ict.go.ke> wrote:
Thanks for the comments.
I am just coming onto nation tv with Larry Madowo on PM live starting
at 12.15pm live. I will be talking about this and as he is on the mailing list too, he already seen many of your comments.
My twitter handle is @pkukubo and larry's is @larrymadowo.
Regards
On Monday, February 13, 2012, Martin Chiteri <martin.chiteri@gmail.com>
wrote:
I agree with @Josh fully,
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Josh Handley < josh@bridgeinternationalacademies.com> wrote:
After having spent a pretty significant part of the last year and
half recruiting software engineers here in Nairobi it seems to me that on average Kenyan developers already have five or ten time times the number of certifications that developers in the US do. At the same time, based on my technical evaluations of the candidates I've seen, software engineering talent seems to be inversely related to the number of certifications. It has gotten to the point where I count certifications against the candidate when I look at their CV.
In my opinion, top developers have a real passion for coding;
enough that they spend a lot of their spare time coding or thinking about coding. These are folks that would code even if they weren't paid for it - they do it because they enjoy coding and solving challenging technical problems.
I think that the best thing this board can do is allow those seeking certifications to work on actual problems over a period of time with qualified software engineers on real projects in their preferred languages / frameworks / tool sets. Then the more experienced guys can give their assessment(s) of the candidates attached to them on different criteria as part of getting the certifications.
The main idea is to let the prospective applicants put their coding skills to practice. This in my opinion is absolutely essential in not only programming but any other field where one is willing to gain mastery. Martin.
A passionate coder would rather spend his/her free time doing extra
coding for their employer, working on their own cool side project or contributing to an open source project than taking an exam.
I'm not sure if the interest in certifications here is because local
employers put a high value on them but my experience in the US is that most top tech employers don't. On the contrary I've seen job ads from Google that explicitly ask for engineers who have contributed to open source projects but I've never seen one ask for certification. For entry level software engineers, it is all about the university program attended. If you graduated from MIT, Stanford or Carnegie Mellon with decent marks you can walk into just about any entry level position at any tech company. The people who get certifications in the US are those that don't have a degree at all. I would be surprised to hear that any Carnegie Mellon CS grads are out getting certifications. Rather than having Carnegie Mellon focusing on this certification program why not have them open up a campus in Nairobi like they are doing in Kigali? As a hiring manager, someone with a degree from Carnegie Mellon Nairobi would jump right to the top of the list over the folks with 20 different certifications.
Josh
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-- Paul Kukubo Chief Executive Officer, Kenya ICT Board PO Box 27150 - 00100 Nairobi, Kenya
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Tel +254 20 2089061, +254 20 2211960 Fax: +254 20 2211962 website: www.ict.go.ke local content project: www.tandaa.co.ke, www.facebook.com/tandaakenya twitter:@tandaaKENYA BPO Project: www. doitinkenya.co.ke Digital Villages Project: www.pasha.co.ke
personal contacts _______________
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____________________ Vision: Kenya becomes a top ten global ICT hub
Mission: To champion and actively enable Kenya to adopt and exploit ICT, through promotion of partnerships, investments and infrastructure growth for socio economic enrichment
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-- "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
Roy.
-- Paul Kukubo Chief Executive Officer, Kenya ICT Board PO Box 27150 - 00100 Nairobi, Kenya
12th Floor, Teleposta Towers Koinange Street
Tel +254 20 2089061, +254 20 2211960 Fax: +254 20 2211962 website: www.ict.go.ke local content project: www.tandaa.co.ke, www.facebook.com/tandaakenya twitter:@tandaaKENYA BPO Project: www. doitinkenya.co.ke Digital Villages Project: www.pasha.co.ke
personal contacts _______________
Cell: + 254 717 180001
skype: kukubopaul googletalk: pkukubo personal blog: www.paulkukubo.co.ke personal twitter: @pkukubo
____________________ Vision: Kenya becomes a top ten global ICT hub
Mission: To champion and actively enable Kenya to adopt and exploit ICT, through promotion of partnerships, investments and infrastructure growth for socio economic enrichment
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
Skunkworks Rules http://my.co.ke/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=94 ------------ Other services @ http://my.co.ke
_______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke ------------ List info, subscribe/unsubscribe http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks ------------
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