ION,<br>Obama admin wants warrant-less access to cell phone location data: <a href="http://t.co/w4wUjVN5" title="http://arst.ch/ss8" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" class="twitter-timeline-link">http://arst.ch/ss8</a><br><br>
./bernard<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:04 PM, ty <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tyruskam@gmail.com">tyruskam@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<font color="#000099">Agreed. All am saying is that there exist inherent and well documented GSM flaws which networks have ignored for years even after recommendations from GSMA.  But like you said your course is governed by ethics. Perhaps this is a discussion for another forum :-)</font><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>

<font color="#000099"><br></font></div></font></span><div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><font color="#000099">-ty<br></font></font></span><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Moses Muya <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:mouzmuyer@gmail.com" target="_blank">mouzmuyer@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">@Ty<div><br></div><div>I would only go for legal ways of achieving these two objectives.I doubt that any MNO will appreciate a person &#39;breaking&#39; into their network in the name of pursuing a worthy cause! :) Then of course there is the ethical part,there are many things that a I.T/Telecoms professional can do but that does mean they should do them! :)<div>

<div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 7 March 2012 11:24, ty <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tyruskam@gmail.com" target="_blank">tyruskam@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


<font color="#000099">Well Moses, Granted that maybe so but flaws in the very nature of GSM allow anyone with the right equipment (some very basic by the way) to perform a whole spectrum analysis.. :-) <br></font><div>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Moses Muya <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:mouzmuyer@gmail.com" target="_blank">mouzmuyer@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



@Bernard<div><br></div><div>Awesome!Thanks for the feedback!That is one more piece of the puzzle in its correct place...<div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 6 March 2012 18:58, Bernard Mwagiru <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:bmwagiru@gmail.com" target="_blank">bmwagiru@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>




<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>&quot;
<span>are mobile ip addresses mapped on to mobile numbers i.e  197.176.*.* to 0725****** ?</span> &quot;</div><div>Yes they are. Both dynamically or statically.</div><div><br></div><div>The dynamic IP address&lt;&gt; Mobile Number mapping at a point in time can be retrieved. Bear in mind, the dynamic IP pool allocation can be almost immediate.</div>





<div>Static IP address&lt;&gt; Mobile Number can be obtained at any time, for as long as the number is still active and has not been deleted.</div><span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div><br></div>
</font></span><div><span><font color="#888888">./bernard</font></span><div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Moses Muya <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:mouzmuyer@gmail.com" target="_blank">mouzmuyer@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





@Anthony<div><br></div><div>Very nice,the link was quite helpful.Thanks!</div><div><br></div><div>@Ty</div><div><br></div><div>The &#39;silent sms&#39; sounds like a good option for &#39;mobile ping&#39;.Nevermind that it would cost at least 1 shilling to &#39;ping&#39; once!  :) But I like the idea behind it and I would be open to pursuing it from that angle.Thanks!</div>






<div><br></div><div>@John</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the pointers.I was thinking more in terms of feature phones - where the provision for installing apps doesn&#39;t exist.It looks like user privacy is taken care of better on &#39;non-smart phones&#39;.Imagine all this trouble to find the location of device X and yet if it were a smart phone,a simple &#39;allow gps location&#39; would do the trick! :(  Tell me John,are mobile ip addresses mapped on to mobile numbers i.e  197.176.*.* to 0725****** ? In theory,if I went to Safaricom/Airtel/Orange and gave them one of numbers on their network,would the tell me which ip address is assigned to it at that point(assuming they are dynamic ip adds.)</div>






<div><br></div><div>@Gisho and Ty</div><div><br></div><div>That would be possible but I am informed the MNOs will only release this info to law enforcement agencies. :(</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Thank you all for the answers!<div>





<div><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 6 March 2012 16:09, ty <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tyruskam@gmail.com" target="_blank">tyruskam@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">






<font color="#000099">Better yet, simply pay for a HLR Lookup from companies that sell info for pennies to the dollar. Again your motives come to play.</font><span><font color="#888888"><div><font color="#000099"><br>
</font></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888"><font color="#000099">-ty<br>
</font></font></span><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 3:30 PM, gisho <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:gichuhie@gmail.com" target="_blank">gichuhie@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><br></div><div>Am not sure about this but i think if you have SS7 link there are a number of queries you can make to HLR of the host provider if its not blocked</div><div><div><div><br></div>
<div> </div><br><div class="gmail_quote">

On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 7:05 AM, John Gitau <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:jgitau@gmail.com" target="_blank">jgitau@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">









<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>If it is you can&#39;t rely on it. I can guarantee it will be blocked the moment you start using it. I&#39;m thinking you&#39;re stuck with apps that users install and allow to share the information. Privacy is/will be a serious issue. Anyway a few apps that I think do what you seem to need ( I&#39;m not too clear on your needs)...</div>









<div><br></div>Instagram<div>Pinterest</div><div>Sonar</div><div>Ban.jo</div><div><br></div><div>Since phones by default tell the network where you are, you can do apps that umm use &#39;ambient social networks&#39; + location. In this case your on phone contacts could be a social network..<div>









<br></div><div>oh and a connected data enabled phone can technically be &#39;pinged&#39;.</div><div><br></div>Other option is to &#39;break&#39; gsm if they don&#39;t give access:-)<div><br>Sent from my iPad</div><div><div>









<div><br>On 6 Mar 2012, at 01:51, Bernard Mwagiru &lt;<a href="mailto:bmwagiru@gmail.com" target="_blank">bmwagiru@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Not sure whether this is enabled, especially considering that it can be used by sms spammers...Its a worth a check.<div>









<br></div><div>./bernard<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 11:23 PM, ty <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tyruskam@gmail.com" target="_blank">tyruskam@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><font color="#000099">If you look at it from a GSM front you will realize you can implement &quot;Silent SMS&quot; to &quot;ping&quot; any user on the SS7 network anywhere in the world. Not sure if this is what you are looking for though. Just a suggestion. </font><span><font color="#888888"><div>











<font color="#000099"><br></font></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888"><font color="#000099">-ty<br></font></font></span><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 5:52 PM, Anthony Lenya <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tlensya@gmail.com" target="_blank">tlensya@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>











<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Mose,<br><br>More pointers,<br><br><a href="http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/location/obtaining-user-location.html" target="_blank">http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/location/obtaining-user-location.html</a><br>











<br>Regards<div><div><br>
<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Memusi <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:tonatech@gmail.com" target="_blank">tonatech@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">












PLEASE CALL ME.MIGHT WORK.Hehehehehehe.This is call dont try this at home.Am sure its all possible but under special scenarios with special interception equipments <div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Moses Muya <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:mouzmuyer@gmail.com" target="_blank">mouzmuyer@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>













<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Very well,thanks!The info you have provided will be of great help.<div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">













On 5 March 2012 15:07, Bernard Mwagiru <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:bmwagiru@gmail.com" target="_blank">bmwagiru@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Yes, the information(UP/DOWN) is readily available to law enforcement institutions.<div><br></div><div>












Where,</div><div>

UP = The line is attached on the network, and this includes its location. Location here means its cell ID in Hex.</div><span><font color="#888888">
<div><br></div><div><br></div></font></span><div><span><font color="#888888">./bernard</font></span><div><div><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Moses Muya <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:mouzmuyer@gmail.com" target="_blank">mouzmuyer@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>















<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>What are your intentions for this knowledge, Moses? </div><div><br></div></div><div><b>Good intentions I assure you!It involves the development of a mobile application.Sorry,I cannot go into the details since that would breach the terms of a certain NDA agreement and I am a coward when it comes to dealing with witty lawyers! :)</b></div>















<div>
<div><br></div><span>I assume what you want to find out is the BTS (signalling towers) that last received the signal of the phone/MSISDN in question. Only law enforcement agencies e.g. NSIS have direct access to lawful interception gateways (which readily have this info in real time)or at least can get the last Cell/site ID(a.k.a cellular triangulation info) of the phone/number via internal anti-fraud telco staff.</span><div>
















<br></div></div><div>FYI, cellular triangulation info is not as primitive as you put it. <b>I was comparing it to GPS,which I would argue is more advanced.</b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div>Every mobile phone sends this info on initiating a call or while performing hand-overs between BTSs. Tapping this info requires you to intercept  and reconstruct a GMSK modulated digital signal, perform some frequency hopping, decode a TDMA/CDMA architecture, A3 key decryption between SIM and Authentication centre/HLR...etc..etc...   <b>The only part I understood here was &#39;...Tapping this info...&#39; ,after that everything sounded like this : ###$%$%^%&amp;%&amp;^*&amp;*(%#$%%^%&amp;^*&amp; ! :) Thank you nonetheless,this gives me a lot to chew on as I research on ways of achieving the stated objectives.</b></div>
















<div><br></div><div>Its an incredibly long shot my friend...Your intentions might be good but I doubt you can get this information. <b>Yep,my intentions are good(as explained above).From your explanation,I take it that MNOs readily have this information at any given time  and the only obstacle that remains is for an individual or organisation to access it,right?</b></div>
















<div><b><br></b></div><div><b>How about the status of a number,is there a way to know whether it&#39;s up or down the way you would on an IP network?</b></div><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On 5 March 2012 14:26, Bernard Mwagiru <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:bmwagiru@gmail.com" target="_blank">bmwagiru@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>What are your intentions for this knowledge, Moses? </div><div><br></div>I assume what you want to find out is the BTS (signalling towers) that last received the signal of the phone/MSISDN in question. Only law enforcement agencies e.g. NSIS have direct access to lawful interception gateways (which readily have this info in real time)or at least can get the last Cell/site ID(a.k.a cellular triangulation info) of the phone/number via internal anti-fraud telco staff.<div>

















<br></div><div>FYI, cellular triangulation info is not as primitive as you put it.</div><div>Every mobile phone sends this info on initiating a call or while performing hand-overs between BTSs. Tapping this info requires you to intercept  and reconstruct a GMSK modulated digital signal, perform some frequency hopping, decode a TDMA/CDMA architecture, A3 key decryption between SIM and Authentication centre/HLR...etc..etc...</div>

















<div><br></div><div>Its an incredibly long shot my friend...Your intentions might be good but I doubt you can get this information.</div><div><br></div><div>./bernard</div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>
















On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Moses Muya <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:mouzmuyer@gmail.com" target="_blank">mouzmuyer@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>Skunks,<div><br></div><div>I have two &#39;stupid&#39; questions.</div><div><br>












</div>
<div>1.0 When you want to know whether a host on network is up or down you ping it,right?Is there an equivalent on mobile phones?If I want to know whether 0725****** is an operational </div>

<div>      number,is there a way of finding out without calling the number or calling Safaricom to ask them about it?</div><div><br></div><div>2.0 We know the location of a mobile device can be discovered using GPS or Cellular tower triangulation.If,for example,a person is using a feature phone then GPS is out of </div>


















<div>      question.Is there a way to tap(for lack of a better word) into the service provider&#39;s triangulation info and send the info to the mobile number or store it for other uses?Think of it as </div><div>      a primitive navigation system.</div>


















<div><br></div><div>Anyone even with remote knowledge of how these two work will be of great help to me right now!<span><font color="#888888"><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Kind Regards,<div><br></div>
<div>Moses Muya.</div><br>
</font></span></div>
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Skunkworks Rules<br>
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Skunkworks Rules<br>
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Other services @ <a href="http://my.co.ke" target="_blank">http://my.co.ke</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Kind Regards,<div><br></div><div>Moses Muya.</div><br>
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------------<br>
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Skunkworks Rules<br>
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Other services @ <a href="http://my.co.ke" target="_blank">http://my.co.ke</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Kind Regards,<div><br></div><div>Moses Muya.</div><br>
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Skunkworks Rules<br>
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------------<br>
<br>
Skunkworks Rules<br>
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Other services @ <a href="http://my.co.ke" target="_blank">http://my.co.ke</a><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Kind Regards,<div><br></div><div>Moses Muya.</div><br>
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Skunkworks Rules<br>
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