The Joomla issue never dies over here. I agree with @Kago..not Joomla but USERS can do better, be it DESIGNERS, who create the themes and basically all the bad Joomla implementations you all shout about here or the developers who are not challenged enough to create custom components/models for local problems.. @Steve, in you mind, what makes Joomla a bad tool? The framework? PHP? or the way 'kenyan developers' are implementing it? I want to believe Joomla encourages innovation by the fact that a developer can create a component to handle any kind of online application - the complexity of the solution being directly proportional to the developers PHP skills. On these shady Joomla sites that keep on cropping up - as long as you keep on having middlemen (some with non-existent IT experience) getting website deals for large corporations and then sourcing for cheap web designers (NOT DEVELOPERS) so as to make large differences on the pay, you will continue to have 'websites done in 17 minutes 23 seconds'