In a way everyone is right on this one,those who are pro-certification and those who are pro-skills.I know of many first-class-honors students with arrays of certifications but whose skills are disappointing,to say the least.These are the people who attain the certifications for the simple reasoning of 'what is hot in the market',and they will gladly cram their way into this kind of 'success'.Anyone who hires this class of people will be in for a rude shock.The second class of people comprises of self-made professionals,they might not have a single paper but they write codes that easily competes in the international market.I can give five names of Kenyans like these who have been building systems for financial organisations in Central Africa,West Africa and beyond but ironically if they were to bid for a project here at home they would lose terribly for the simple fact that their highest 'certification' is a High School certificate! I appreciate this initiative to create the certification and I hope it will make it easier for prospective employers to hire people with the right skills and for the programmers in Kenya to reap from their handwork.Finally,it is important to note that this certification will only better the lives people who are already good programmers,it is not a magic charm to create good programmers from bad ones! Kind regards. On 14 February 2012 20:58, Josh Handley < josh@bridgeinternationalacademies.com> wrote:
@Peter, I like the solutions you propose, particularly the summer camp and getting computers to young kids who are interested in programming. When I was in Rwanda they were rolling out the one laptop per child laptops and if that is done right it could have a pretty big impact in the long run.
I also agree that the focus of a university program should not be to teach lots of different technologies but to focus on learning one or two with some depth and with lots of practice coding. The program I attended didn't focus on any particular technology or programming language but rather on fundamental concepts of computer science like data structures, algorithms, AI, compilers, operating systems and theory. Grades in those classes were almost exclusively based on individual coding assignments and projects rather than on exams. Once you have these fundamentals you can teach yourself to code in any language/technology as evidenced by the fact that pretty much none of the popular programming languages/platforms of today even existed when folks in my generation were at university yet we are not having any trouble finding work using current technologies.
@Joram, good point that a certification would be a good way for someone does not have a university degree to be more marketable. I would fully support it for that purpose. There are certainly plenty of examples of good coders who never completed school and it is harder for them to get hired, especially at first, both here and in the US. I have to disagree though that getting a well rounded education is not important. A good developer needs to be able to understand not just the technology but also the end users problem domain. The more well rounded an education you have the better you are at that. These days, the most marketable computer science grads in the US are those that have done both computer science and an additional subject e.g. computer science + biology for bioinformatics or computer science + finance to work on Wall Street.
Josh
On 2/14/2012 5:53 PM, skunkworks-request@lists.my.**co.ke<skunkworks-request@lists.my.co.ke>wrote:
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:53:22 +0300 From: Peter Karunyu<pkarunyu@gmail.com> To: Skunkworks Mailing List<skunkworks@lists.my.co.ke**> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] KICTB "Chipuka": a new software, , certification program for entry level developers Message-ID: <CAKzUqtQVD=ER0x5z3O_Y2KiWz-**mwfh+3J85nevb1ETtPbpaQLw@mail.** gmail.com <ER0x5z3O_Y2KiWz-mwfh%2B3J85nevb1ETtPbpaQLw@mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
@Joram, allow me to disagree with you on a number of points.
*1. "Someone mentioned that great engineers in the US are not hired through papers, i don't believe this..."* I have been working for clients in US for a while now and not once did one ask for my degree papers or any other certs, they just wanted to see what i have done before.
Secondly, I keep a very close eye on careers.stackoverflow.com, and in all the posts I have checked out, most do not ask for a degree or some other certification. They ask for core programming skills. * 2. "Plus the market is flooded with graduates..."* I am not sure I understand what you mean by this. Is the Kenyan market flooded by graduates? Yes. Are graduates the same as programmers? Hell No! Just because someone has gone through a BBIT or CIS degree programme does not make one a programmer. Writing programs makes one a programmer! The more you code, the more likely you are to become better.
Is the US market flooded by graduates? I don't know. What I do know is that Computer Science graduates from Universities and colleges in US are selling like hot cakes, according to this CNN story<http://edition.cnn.com/**2012/01/12/opinion/rushkoff-** write-code/index.html<http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/12/opinion/rushkoff-write-code/index.html>
. And this<http://money.cnn.com/**video/news/2012/01/05/n_** computer_science_jobs.**cnnmoney/<http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2012/01/05/n_computer_science_jobs.cnnmoney/> one and this<http://money.cnn.com/**2011/03/07/technology/tech_** engineers_wanted/index.htm<http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/07/technology/tech_engineers_wanted/index.htm>
.
*3. "In a market where demand outstrips supply papers dont matter but when the tables turn, employers turn to papers..."* Do you mean that when the number of job seekers exceeds the available positions, then employers turn to papers? Well, since we are talking about programmers here, have you heard of the Joel Test<http://www.**joelonsoftware.com/articles/**fog0000000043.html<http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html>
? Specifically rule number 11. The employers who use papers to grade programmers are misguided. I would bet that the big software houses in .ke, Cellulant, Craft Silicon et al place a premium on programmers who have the core skills over those who have fancy papers.
4. "*I did a Computer Science degree and still stand by what I said above. We learnt general concepts of computing, dabbled with several platforms and ushered into the world. From there we were on our own. Some became great programmers, some of us bailed. But nothing in that curriculum prepared me to be a great anything. It exposed me to all and left the rest to me...*" And this is where I think our Universities have it wrong. A couple of years back, *students *from MIT would come to Strathmore University to teach Java programming. The recent AI and ML classes which several skunks took part in reveal just how deep those guys go when teaching. Still don't believe me? Check out this iOS programming course from Stanford<http://www.stanford.**edu/class/cs193p/cgi-bin/**drupal/<http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs193p/cgi-bin/drupal/>
. You simply cant get this level of detail in our local colleges and Universities due to their misguided belief that lecturers teach you 20% and 80% you learn on your own.
This learning of general concepts and dabbling in several platforms is what is messing up our graduates. They know a little of everything, and thus are not good in any.
*5. "in my opinion, Universities are not designed to produce good programmers. they are to produce all round thinkers...*" I think this a very wrong approach. It is the reason no University in Kenya has sent its students to India or Russia to teach Java programming to students there. Its the same reason we don't see any "*holy sh*t! that is awesome*<http://www.raytheon.**com/newsroom/technology/rtn08_** exoskeleton/<http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/technology/rtn08_exoskeleton/>
" innovations in .ke. Universities make us all round in VB 5, 6, C, C++, Java, PHP, HTML such that we don't master any of them to become of any use to Josh, IBM or Skynet.
*Solution *1. Pick one platform/language, teach it to students from first year to 5th year. Go into as much detail as possible. 2. Hand pick any high school student interested in computers, ship them off to a 3 month summer camp @ mLab and teach them programming. 3. Give laptops to anyone with half a mind interest in computers. 4. Sit back and watch as interesting things happen.
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