June 2009 - skunkworks - Skunkworks Site

Re: [Skunkworks] For Astronomy?
by Mwero Ruwah 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

When you combine timber and nails you get a chair (table, bed... whatever suits you ). The minute you take the nails away from the chair, you have a chair no more but nails and timber. The same thing happens to man. He's made of GOD's breath & dust. The minute GOD's breath is taken from man, we have no more a man but dust. I am a Christian so I believe in resurrection of people in the future, but before then, all dead people are just that, dead. Not alive somewhere as in the popular belief! My 2 cents! --- On Tue, 6/9/09, Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia(a)gmail.com> wrote: From: Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] For Astronomy? To: "Skunkworks forum" <skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke> Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 12:31 AM It's not a religious debate and nobody is getting bashed. All I am saying is that I have my own views on where people go when they die, and my views are as the Bible says about life after death. Nothing religious about that... 2009/6/9 Watson Kambo <wkwats(a)gmail.com> Hello, No no no .. it was not supposed to be religious debate otherwise I get bashed ... I just wanted us to go through the tech changes over the years ... and also to see if there is anyone on the list who is fascinated by space and astronomy .... of late I have seen great discussions on the list that were very educative from shrinking bottles to Planes and aeronautics .... I thought this would be too ... ;-) 2009/6/8 Simon Mbuthia <simon.mbuthia(a)gmail.com> Hi Ndungu, When we lose a loved one, we try to make-believe that he is in a "better place" which could be true, but one thing is.. we all know that the body of the person is in a grave somewhere. So is it that the grave is the better place or are we a different entity from out bodies? I believe we are not our body. I am not myu body just the same as I am not my shirt. But when you look at me, you see my body and my shirt and everything else [almost, heh heh] that is on me. That therefore means that there is an inner being. The one who loves, hates, feels, thinks etc, and that being is unseen, trapped in this body. I believe that when we die, the body remains here, but that inner being drifts into a different dimension. This might not make sense, which is understandable, seeing as none of us has ever died, but have you ever watched a person die? They talk of seeing things that you don't see yourself. Could it be that the inner being is drifting to a different dimension hence the "hallucinations"? They could be real, you never know. But that is just what I believe. As for where we go, I believe in what the Bible teaches, not because i have been taught to believe in its teachings, but because of a personal experience from which I reckoned that the Bible is true. It talks of where people go when their lives on earth is done. I believe in what it teaches about that. 2009/6/8 ndungu stephen <ndungustephen(a)gmail.com> And where do we go when we die ? In what form shall we survive when we die ? When answering these questions --- one can fully grasp the significance or the insignificance of our space endeavors. If we shall be free to roam the universe [in super forms like a pure energy being] and not confined to a specific space in "heaven" with the same current limitations-- then you can be free to roam the universe and confirm some of these facts. Mabbe space is just like a huge blanket around earth --- kinda like a huge black wall paper with chrismas lights stuck on them :-) If I was an alien race and came into contact with species called kenyans,, i think i would be scared to welcome them to my home.. no wonder they are always hiding when they come at night to mutilate cows [testing anti-gravity technology] and draw crop circles [test large scale branding] _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- שִׁמְעוֹן _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- Watson wanjohi kambo _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general -- שִׁמְעוֹן -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

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Profiler for sql express
by Paul Mathu 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Hi Has anayone managed to configure profiler for sql express on either 2005 or 2008? Just share how u went about this. -- Regards Mathu http://sojjar.blogspot.com

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EMS/Posta contacts
by Paul Mathu 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Hi Anyone with working contacts of EMS or posta?? i have been looking arnd and none of the numbers i have seem to work, even the ones on their packaging paper!!! where is this corporation headed to...????? -- Regards Mathu http://sojjar.blogspot.com

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EMS Contacts
by Paul Mathu 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Anyone with working contacts of EMS or posta?? Pls send to me. i have been looking arnd and none of the numbers i have seem to work, even the ones on their packaging paper!!! where is this corporation headed to...????? Which brings me to local content again. we are really invisible on the web. i wonder if with the coming of the fibre is going to make any difference. -- Regards Mathu http://sojjar.blogspot.com

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Google Wave.. Will it be the new gmail.. Release Later this year
by jude mwenda 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

while still talking about bing, This is interesting. At the recent Google i/o conference this was unleashed, Google Wave was unleashed Google on Thursday revealed what it's billing as "the email of the future." Named Google Wave, the experimental project is the result of a multiyear initiative to reinvent digital communication by blending e-mail, instant messaging, and content sharing into something resembling a cross between Twitter, Facebook, and your standard email platform (G-mail. it combines conversation-type communication and collaboration-type communication. What is interesting in this is that Google is eyeing an investment in twitter(rumour i insist).. here is the link for those interested in this rumour http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/04/02/sources-google-in-late-stage-talks-to-… wonder if they are interested in facebook and what is MSF doing about going social though the have a stake in Facebook. this is going to be interesting.. links on Google Wave http://wave.google.com/ then on the wave protocol http://www.waveprotocol.org/ Google Wave has an API,wonder it it is still applicable to Google Apps users ?ny ideas -- Regards Jude Mwenda "Was ist mein Leben, wenn ich nicht mehr nützlich für andere." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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ISPs in Meru
by JEREMIAH CHUNGE 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Guys, Anyone knows a reliable ISP covering Meru area? Kindly give suggestions. Thanks & Rgds, -- Jeremy

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Re: [Skunkworks] Intrusive Monitoring
by David Kago 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

@jacob, if you run it as a service, and start it when he's logged in, it doesnt show any icon at all, you are completely invisible, also remember to set your display to view only, you dont want his mouse having a life of its own :-) ________________________________ From: skunkworks-bounces(a)lists.my.co.ke [mailto:skunkworks-bounces@lists.my.co.ke] On Behalf Of Jacob Odada Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:44 AM To: Skunkworks forum Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Intrusive Monitoring But remember the vnc icon on the task bar usually turns black when someone connects to the service. If he is to find out YOU = FIRED 2009/6/10 Peter Karunyu <pkarunyu(a)gmail.com> Nice idea, maybe when MPs get those laptops, the same should be done to them! LOL! On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 9:48 AM, David Kago <kago(a)ultimate-security.net> wrote: I can see my boss's desktop whenever I want, I just install VNC server as a service on his box (vncserver -install), then set it its start type to manual, then when I need to see his desktop (a tad evil), I just remote manage services on his box, start the VNC service and voila, am in... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: chuks Jonia [mailto:chuksjonia@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 7:01 PM To: Skunkworks forum Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Intrusive Monitoring LOL! LMAO!!! 2009/6/9 Areba Collins <arebacollins(a)gmail.com>: > Is there something i can install from my Ubuntu SMO server and monitor > my boss on his windows as he is busy chatting the board members about > me? > :-) > > 2009/6/7 mike oketch <mikeoketch(a)gmail.com>: >> http://www.imonitorsoft.com/ >> >> 2009/6/6 chuks Jonia <chuksjonia(a)gmail.com> >>> >>> But with this you have to log in to the system, maybe when he is not >>> there and install the surveillance software... >>> >>> 2009/6/6 mike oketch <mikeoketch(a)gmail.com>: >>> > radmin is the best. Contact me I send you a legal license >>> > http://www.radmin.com/ >>> > >>> > >>> > 2009/6/5 Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo(a)gmail.com> >>> >> >>> >> 2009/6/5 chuks Jonia <chuksjonia(a)gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guardian is next next next kind of tool. Meterpreter runs in >>> >>> Metasploit. Metasploit is an exploitation tool which has stealth >>> >>> attacks and stealth monitoring capabilities on the network. >>> >> >>> >> Well, in this case I am looking for something akin to guardian. >>> >> Anyone with other ideas before I go buying guardian? >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Best regards, >>> >> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>> >> Nairobi,KE >>> >> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>> >> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Clothes make the >>> >> man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." >>> >> -- Mark Twain >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Skunkworks mailing list >>> >> Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> Other lists >>> >> ------------- >>> >> Skunkworks announce: >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announc >>> >> e Science - >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science >>> >> kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Skunkworks mailing list >>> > Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke >>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> > Other lists >>> > ------------- >>> > Skunkworks announce: >>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce >>> > Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science >>> > kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H , C.P.T.P, O.S.C.P I.T Security Analyst >>> and Penetration Tester infosigmer(a)inbox.com >>> >>> {FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/ >>> http://nspkenya.blogspot.com/ >>> http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.kamongo.co.ke/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> Other lists >>> ------------- >>> Skunkworks announce: >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce >>> Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science >>> kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> Other lists >> ------------- >> Skunkworks announce: >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce >> Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science >> kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >> >> > > > > -- > If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples > then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea > and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will > have two ideas. > > George Bernard Shaw > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > Other lists > ------------- > Skunkworks announce: > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce > Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science > kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general > -- -- Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H , C.P.T.P, O.S.C.P I.T Security Analyst and Penetration Tester infosigmer(a)inbox.com {FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/ http://nspkenya.blogspot.com/ http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/ http://www.kamongo.co.ke/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

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Re: [Skunkworks] Intrusive Monitoring
by David Kago 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

I can see my boss's desktop whenever I want, I just install VNC server as a service on his box (vncserver -install), then set it its start type to manual, then when I need to see his desktop (a tad evil), I just remote manage services on his box, start the VNC service and voila, am in... ;-) -----Original Message----- From: chuks Jonia [mailto:chuksjonia@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 7:01 PM To: Skunkworks forum Subject: Re: [Skunkworks] Intrusive Monitoring LOL! LMAO!!! 2009/6/9 Areba Collins <arebacollins(a)gmail.com>: > Is there something i can install from my Ubuntu SMO server and monitor > my boss on his windows as he is busy chatting the board members about > me? > :-) > > 2009/6/7 mike oketch <mikeoketch(a)gmail.com>: >> http://www.imonitorsoft.com/ >> >> 2009/6/6 chuks Jonia <chuksjonia(a)gmail.com> >>> >>> But with this you have to log in to the system, maybe when he is not >>> there and install the surveillance software... >>> >>> 2009/6/6 mike oketch <mikeoketch(a)gmail.com>: >>> > radmin is the best. Contact me I send you a legal license >>> > http://www.radmin.com/ >>> > >>> > >>> > 2009/6/5 Odhiambo ワシントン <odhiambo(a)gmail.com> >>> >> >>> >> 2009/6/5 chuks Jonia <chuksjonia(a)gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> Guardian is next next next kind of tool. Meterpreter runs in >>> >>> Metasploit. Metasploit is an exploitation tool which has stealth >>> >>> attacks and stealth monitoring capabilities on the network. >>> >> >>> >> Well, in this case I am looking for something akin to guardian. >>> >> Anyone with other ideas before I go buying guardian? >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Best regards, >>> >> Odhiambo WASHINGTON, >>> >> Nairobi,KE >>> >> +254733744121/+254722743223 >>> >> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ "Clothes make the >>> >> man. Naked people have little or no influence on society." >>> >> -- Mark Twain >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Skunkworks mailing list >>> >> Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> >> Other lists >>> >> ------------- >>> >> Skunkworks announce: >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announc >>> >> e Science - >>> >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science >>> >> kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Skunkworks mailing list >>> > Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke >>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> > Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> > Other lists >>> > ------------- >>> > Skunkworks announce: >>> > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce >>> > Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science >>> > kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H , C.P.T.P, O.S.C.P I.T Security Analyst >>> and Penetration Tester infosigmer(a)inbox.com >>> >>> {FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/ >>> http://nspkenya.blogspot.com/ >>> http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/ >>> http://www.kamongo.co.ke/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Skunkworks mailing list >>> Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >>> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >>> Other lists >>> ------------- >>> Skunkworks announce: >>> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce >>> Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science >>> kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Skunkworks mailing list >> Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks >> Other services @ http://my.co.ke >> Other lists >> ------------- >> Skunkworks announce: >> http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce >> Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science >> kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general >> >> > > > > -- > If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples > then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea > and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will > have two ideas. > > George Bernard Shaw > _______________________________________________ > Skunkworks mailing list > Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks > Other services @ http://my.co.ke > Other lists > ------------- > Skunkworks announce: > http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce > Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science > kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general > -- -- Gichuki John Ndirangu, C.E.H , C.P.T.P, O.S.C.P I.T Security Analyst and Penetration Tester infosigmer(a)inbox.com {FORUM}http://lists.my.co.ke/pipermail/security/ http://nspkenya.blogspot.com/ http://chuksjonia.blogspot.com/ http://www.kamongo.co.ke/ _______________________________________________ Skunkworks mailing list Skunkworks(a)lists.my.co.ke http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks Other services @ http://my.co.ke Other lists ------------- Skunkworks announce: http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunkworks-announce Science - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/science kazi - http://lists.my.co.ke/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/kazi/general

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Knowledge Management Tool
by Thomas Odol | Amalvin Limited 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Hi Guys, Is there anyone who knows an open source knowledge management tool that can be used in an office setup to sharing information in an Intranet format. Regards Thomas. -- ______________________________

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Re: [Skunkworks] Food for thought...
by David Kago 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

@watson, The biblical day that God spent creating is not necessarily the 24hour day that we know. The notion of the creation day being a 24 hour period arose from the King James version and not church history. It has to do with the hebrew language lacking precise definitions for a time frame, thus the hebrew word 'Yom' can mean 12 hours, 24 hours or a long time period. If you read closely, you will discover that the 7th doesnt end, it is continuing, God entered a state of rest (Ps 95, Heb 4). The biblical account of creation is chronologically in agreement with evolutionary assertions. It can mean the 6 time frames probably stretch for billions of years, so the earth is not 6,000 years old, yes, according to the Bible. ________________________________ From: Watson Kambo [mailto:wkwats@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:32 PM To: Skunkworks forum Subject: [Skunkworks] Food for thought... Hello, Just thinking, Voyager 1 was launched some time in 1977, so by the time I was born it had done some 1451.04 Million Kms, to date its been traveling at 17Kms every sec! meaning by last month it had done some 16445.29 million Kms, so in all my life its traveled 14994.25 million Kms... and all this time its been calling out to any Aliens out there presumably luganda aliens, since Luganda was one of the languages in the Golden record. But again if aliens got hold of it and returned with it expecting the technology that was on board they would be shocked .... 1977 tech vs 2009 ..... just asking, what would you show them .... and would we show them the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN in Geneva??... For one I would compare for them, hoping they have a sense of hearing, the turn table disks, as they were called, and the DVD as we know it today... the Sony Walkman and the Ipod... Hhhhmmmm ;-), wait I should not believe these things, how can I when am told a star is 10 light years this is like 95,000,000,000,000 Kms away, yet they are some that are more than a 20,000 light years, don't ask for the number, aha meaning the light you see at that moment left its origin more than 20,000 years ago, so if according to the bible/ Koran the earth, and the Universe including light was created like 6000 years ago .... I choose the later less thinking God created some 6000 years ago in 6 days our origin is Adam and Eve .... -- Watson wanjohi kambo

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